13 replies to this topic

[kpdelvalle]

I'm a freelance web designer and I don't want to branch off into SEO or offer it as a major part of my services. However, I find that I can't help but incorporate what I learn about SEO into the sites I design for my clients. For example, for every one of my web design clients, I:

--do keyword research and prepare a keyword document for them
--re-work (or write from scratch) their copy so that it's both user-friendly and incorporates their keywords
--carefully craft each page title and page description
--check their link popularity against competitors
--recommend ways they might gain incoming links for their industry
--monitor their traffic after the site is up and look for ways to get conversions
--go back (sometimes months later) and apply new things I've learned

I don't charge for any of it for several reasons:

--the stuff above is pretty basic SEO and doesn't scratch the surface of what you experts do (some of the stuff you guys talk about just makes my head spin!)
--I'm still learning and experimenting and the site owners are allowing it
--most of my clients probably wouldn't pay anything extra
--if I charge for it, I'd actually be accountable (although so far everyone's done better for my tinkering)

My problem: even though it's basic stuff I'm doing, it can take quite a bit of time for some sites and I'd like to get at least a little something for it. How do you advise I handle this without branding myself as a SEOP? I feel like if I charge extra, most clients won't go for it and I'll end up doing it anyway because as a web designer, how can I NOT do these things if I really want to see my client's sites and their business do well. Does the definition of good web design now incorporate basic SEO? I still see some designers charge twice as much as I do to design sites that still have "Home" as the page title.

Kind of a long post, sorry! Thanks for any advice...

--Keita

[projectphp]

I am not sure I get your problem.

You have two choices: sell for more, or make this stuff your USP. Using SEO as a freebie, e.g. "Includes Basic SEO so you can be found by search engines" is a great way to go.

From there, I would also recommend looking to partner with an SEO, and upsell clients to (outsourced) SEO services. That way, your prop includes additional benefits (you get found) as well as a caveat that this is the basics, and if they want Rolls Royce, you can arange it.

To survive in business, you need to sell, and upselling clients is easier than new sales, and making a cut while not losing your core focus is a good idea. You never know, partner with teh rigth SEo and you may even get some return work!

[kpdelvalle]

Hi projectphp,

What's USP?

Thanks...

[kpdelvalle]

Actually, upon re-reading I think I figured out from your context what USP means.

[Catz]

USP - Unique Selling Proposition

What about you or the services you offer makes you stand out in the crowd?

The fact that you are interested in and beginning to learn about SEO puts you well ahead of many web designers. You don't have to be an SEO, but you are beginning to get the importance of web site optimization.

You will create higher quality web sites than much of your competition. You are learning many of the basics that are important to incorporate into your sites, that many developers aren't even aware of.

[jspope]

Hi kpdelvalle!

I don't charge for any of it for several reasons:

To stay in business, you need to charge for all of your services.

--the stuff above is pretty basic SEO and doesn't scratch the surface of what you experts do (some of the stuff you guys talk about just makes my head spin!)

Bookkeeping is pretty basic but if you ask your accountant to do it for you, he's going to charge you extra. Why? It takes his (or his staff's) time.

Your SEO services can improve your client's bottom line.

Just because there are people more knowledgable and experienced than you doesn't mean that you can't charge for what you can do.

The top tax lawyers in the country may be more expert than other lawyers but who can afford them? For most clients, hiring them would be overkill.

It sounds like you're under-estimating the value of your services.

--I'm still learning and experimenting and the site owners are allowing it

We're all learning! Get paid for on-the-job training.

--most of my clients probably wouldn't pay anything extra

How do you know? Have you asked them?

Make a case for the extra fees. How could the increased targeted traffic help the bottom line of their business?

Replace unappreciative clients with appreciative ones.

The way I see it, you're selling value-added web design services. Your edge over other designers may be your SEO knowledge. Premium services deserve premium rates.

It sounds like you're hesitating to charge fair rates because of a slight lack of self-confidence. This is natural (especially for new consultants). However, what you know and do has real value.

(By the way, I find it more appealing to deal with someone who is humble enough to admit their limitations than someone who is arrogant and cocky and often is not as great as they think they are.)

--if I charge for it, I'd actually be accountable (although so far everyone's done better for my tinkering)

You're accountable whether you charge or not.

If you give free advice to someone and they feel they suffered damages, they can still sue you.

Regards,
Stephen :-)

[rohgan03]

Personally, I like the idea of free basic SEO and using it like a USP

However you and the client need to on the same note on what is included and what isnt...with basic SEO you can not garuantee results or that the site will get any ranking at all....try and see if you can provide them some kind of automated report that is useful...most ppl will pay more for additional services once they realise the importance and know what is missing.

[samzbuzy]

--if I charge for it, I'd actually be accountable

Hi Keita,

People buy from you not for your efforts
But for the "perceived value" of your efforts
And they remain with you when you "deliver" the perceived value

1) Jot down the benefits that your clients will get out of your efforts
2) Make sure you can stand accountable to the benefits you promise

If you are confident on the above, rest of the work is your skill in selling the benefits to the client.

If you want to be in business, you need to accept the training period without much monetary benefits to become an expert who can charge more than the effort it takes to deliver the service.



Regards
Sam

[kpdelvalle]

Thanks everyone. Just a few weeks ago, I had no where to go with questions like these. Your comments have made me re-evaluate the way I do business. I'm going to try several of the suggestions made here and see how things go.

[Jill]

Just think of us as your personal virtual watercooler!

[Karri]

Keita,

Just had to jump in here. The who issue around "what to charge" is a HOT issue amongst us Virtual Assistants (which many of you are in a way too).

Please, please, charge what you are worth to your clients. Someone here said that people pay for perceived value. So true. And indeed, they pay for the value THEY perceive, not what you perceive on account of a possible confidence issue (which many entrepreneurs have at times). There is a delicate balance between conveying confidence and being candid about your competencies. You CAN do both and still win qualified clients. Prospects want honesty and often they will go with the less experienced but perhaps more professionally-minded consultant over the cocky, irritating, can't-trust-as-far-as-you-can-throw-me flake.

In just a few of your posts here, you gave us a laundry list of fantastic benefits you are giving away to your clients for NOTHING. I understand exactly where you are coming from because I am not an SEO guru yet I wouldn't dream of building a site for someone that was not at minimum SE friendly. As for doing keyword research and rewriting copy ... I feel this is an added service that you could charge additionally for. Just my opinion.

Do you know how many TERRIBLE websites are out there that NO ONE but no one is visiting let alone buying things from? Even with your relatively new knowledge you are automatically putting your clients' sites in a category that is relatively small on the web (the category called: "sites that don't suck." "Suck" is the technical term used to describe sites that are built with no definitive purpose, cannot be navigated without a blueprint, make you go blind, take five zillion years to download, or are viewed about five times a year-usuallly by the webmaster or client).

Now, I am all for throwing in a freebie now and then to grease the wheels of a sale if push comes to shove. But you know what? The "perceived value" of the freebie in the client's mind lasts about three milli-seconds. Then they are onto their next shopping trip for s'more freebies. Ick. Do you really want clients like this anyway? I would rather charge more for my services and maintain a client roster of professionally-minded individuals to whom I am providing excellent long term value.

Ask yourself: what do my clients charge for their time?

A very intelligent and successful colleague said to me once (in summary): If you cannot afford to work with me, then I cannot afford to work with you (thanks Dale :wink:). I was giddy with relief and validation when I read this. Where would your clients be without a designer like you? What is that worth to them? Time is money baby. Believe in your value and your clients will too.

Karri

Edited by Karri, 24 September 2005 - 01:14 PM.

[kpdelvalle]

Thanks Karri. Now you have made me giddy with relief!

I guess I have to decide if I'm running a for-profit business or a not-for-profit charity.

And truthfully, as some of you mentioned, I do want out of the client base I've been dealing with. Most (not all) are often completely unavailable to even participate in their own web site project.

[robmarketshare]

Just a quicky.
If you give away someting for FREE it can (and will) be percieved as worthless ......

So whenever you give away something, make sure the reciever understands the value of it.

[Dave Navarro]

Keita,

Just had to jump in here.  The who issue around "what to charge" is a HOT issue amongst us Virtual Assistants (which many of you are in a way too).

Please, please, charge what you are worth to your clients. 

Karri hit that nail right on the head. It's critical for you and your business to know that even if you don't think you are an "expert" there is one thing you do know: that you provide real value to your clients.

Don't worry about how you compare to "experts" - focus on "what kind of problems am I good at solving for my customers?"

One of the biggest challenges my clients have is realizing that they don't have to be an expert to be successful. They just have to realize that they are good at what they do - and that they become *great* at communicating that to their customers.

Don't forget that from the perspective of someone who knows zero about how to do something, the fact that you know *something* makes you more of an expert in their eyes. :-)

Bottom line is that you know what you are *good* (and getting better!) at. Don't sell yourself short. You may not be able to answer *every* SEO question, but you can go a long way to getting your clients started on the right track.

Hope that helps! Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Keep on keepin' on -