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Marketing To The Uk
Posted 30 October 2003 - 01:06 PM
What I'm seeing on the issue of UK spellings is more nuanced than what the Old Welsh Guy says. If the topic is heavily influenced by what goes on in the US, a significant portion of UK searchers will use the US spellings in their searches.
Posted 30 October 2003 - 04:40 PM
Yahoo UK has just dropped Espotting - now Overture UK results showing.
I love this market - a change every week
Would you say that losing Yahoo marks the end of eSpotting as a serious contended for PPC in the UK? I am thinking Overture pretty much has it sewn up now with only Google AdWords for company.
(Sorry for the thread hi-jack - perhaps we can split this off to a fresh topic?)
Posted 30 October 2003 - 05:15 PM
So, please correct me if I'm wrong: These big British companies that use the .com tld as a badge of internationalism DON'T appear in the UK-filter searches on most SE's other than Google??
If that's so, then there ought to be a lot of red faces out there!
Posted 30 October 2003 - 06:03 PM
Lots of good advice so far and I agree. I would recommend buying a suitable .co.uk domain name.
There's also www.oneandone.co.uk.
Just to make certain about the .uk thing, I double checked with one of my .com's from GoogleUK. Restricting the search to UK sites left the .com nowhere to be seen whilst a worldwide search returned it on the front page. I also noted during the UK restricted search that most though not all, of the returned results had the .uk ending.
Posted 30 October 2003 - 06:23 PM
Doing a neotrace on the .coms brought me back to the UK for each of them.
Interestingly, I saw a piece of software recently that purported to figure out the locale of an IP by getting the address of the technical contact in whois.
I suppose that's another way to figure it out.
Posted 30 October 2003 - 06:50 PM
1) if the site is a .co.uk - if so include
2) if the site is not a .co.uk but reverse DNS lookup shows it as coming from a UK IP block - then include.
Note some UK ISPs do not host in the UK - if so you will fail test 2)
If you have a .co.uk and you host outside the UK, you will get a slight (perhaps 3 positions) demotion on UK searches.
So you will see .com domains in Google UK - but the majority will be .co.uk.
Both Yahoo UK and AOL UK - if UK sites are selected ignore the Google UK filter and apply their own TLD filter. If you do a search there and select UK only - no .com domains will show.
On MSN UK (or any Inktomi portal), sites with a .co.uk TLD will get a geo-targetting boost regardless of hosting. An attempt is trying to be made to judge if other TLDs are aimed at a UK (or other regional) market. How they are doing/or are intending to do this is not clear to me yet - but the first experiment at the beginning of October didn't seem to work too well!
Both AltaVista and Teoma have filters that allow PFI sites to be in their regionally filtered results if you pay extra. So, if I submit a .co.uk to Teoma US - it shows up in the US, not in the UK. If I submit a .com to Teoma/AJ UK it will show in the UK and not the US.
If I submit a country specific TLD to AV it will show up in both the main AV database and the regional filtered DB. If I have a .com and want to appear in the appropriate country's filtered results, I must either PFI and state I want to be listed in that country and may pay extra to appear in other countries - or I can contact AV and ask them to list my site in the countries I want. Be prepared for a long wait!
Lycos UK defaults to UK only searches but will pull .com sites if listed in their directory.
Freeserve will filter by TLD only - unless the site is in Overture UK where .coms will still appear. Freeserve lists all paid listings for Overture UK before FAST backfill so you may get the first 10 pages full of sponsored results before hitting the first "real" result where the filter will be applied.
I think that covers all the rules for the main search portals - but, to sum up what has been said elsewhere, for the UK market get a .co.uk domain and host in the UK. If you have a .com for branding purposes let it do a 301 redirect to the .co.uk. and promote the .co.uk for links and directory listings.
Large corporates with red faces? You bet. The number of stunned silences that occur when senior marketing people see that their precious .com doesn't appear or is penalized on major search portals like MSN and Yahoo has been amazing! They usually hire me on the spot
My personal advice on Espotting? Forget them for now when considering PPC in the UK. There is traffic, some of it is good - but some of their affiliates are a little "agressive" - shall we say
Posted 30 October 2003 - 06:59 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a post by you that wasn't totally on-topic and incredibly informative.
I think I learn more in one or two of your posts that I can in dozens of others elswhere.
I know you are mostly in the UK, but do you know if the same applies anywhere else (ie Germany, Japan, etc)? I know Canada pretty well, but I'm starting to get the impression that it's a special case rather than representative.
And I LOVE that look when the site doesn't show up
Posted 30 October 2003 - 07:09 PM
I don't have much (well none - actually) experience with Japan
Posted 31 October 2003 - 01:49 AM
MakeMeTop - thanks for that great insight. I've got a client located in the Southern Hemisphere that targets tourists coming to their country. Our major target group is Europe (especially France and England). Their site is a .com in French and English(hosted in Canada!). They're constantly looking at ways to optimize the site, as much of their business comes from online. I'm about to do a Yahoo submission for them and was debating which Yahoo to submit to - .com or .co.uk. The UK Yahoo has the advantage of only having a one time submission fee, as opposed to the USA's recurring annual fee. However, I've heard that page rank gets a bigger boost from being in the US directory. IYHO, should I
if you are selling in the UK it is IMHO insanity not to use a .co.uk domain. Failure to do so can lose you thousands of potential customers looking for UK sites and using a filter where you won't appear if you are a .com
A. Submit the .com to the US dir
B Submit the .com site to the .co.uk dir
C. Get a .co.uk and submit that to the .co.uk
D. Just forget the whole project and go on vacation
Posted 31 October 2003 - 03:24 AM
You can even submit to main catagories, such as >shopping rather than >UK>shopping if you are doing international sales.
To determine if you can submit via the UK - strictly speaking, you (as submitter) should either be located in the UK, have content aimed specifically at the UK (prices in £) or be a .co.uk domain.
Without knowing the specifics of your client, I can't say what option you should take.
Remember that US sites show up in the UK directory, also.
Posted 31 October 2003 - 05:13 PM
Thanks for some very thorough detailed advice on this topic - very illuminating!
Posted 08 November 2003 - 06:00 AM
Their .com site content is not *specifically* targeted at the UK, but a major portion of their clientele come from the UK. Prices are not listed on the site, so currency is not an issue.
The client would like to save the money by having the one time fee of Yahoo UK as opposed to the annual fee of Yahoo.com, but they want to know if the odds are higher that Yahoo UK will reject their submission, in light of being a .com and the above situation.
Posted 21 November 2003 - 06:32 AM
I sent my question off to Yahoo! themselves, and they responded (thank you, Yahoo!) :
Yahoo! told me that the site was NOT more likely to be rejected by Yahoo UK compared to Yahoo.com. This was in response to my letter below explaining the specific conditions for my submission:
"I want to submit a commericaial .com site to Yahoo UK, but am unsure if I am supposed to submit it to Yahoo UK or Yahoo.com. The site has an English version and meets all the listed UK submission guidelines. However, the site has to do with a vacation rentals company in COUNTRY X. The business is not located in the UK. The site doesn't specifically mention the UK, but more clients for the business come from the UK than from the US. Which Yahoo directory is more appropriate?
Don't want to pay for an express submission to the wrong directory."
And the story has a happy ending. The submission WAS accepted by Yahoo UK.
So there is my experience. I hope it can be useful to others facing the same choice.
Posted 17 December 2003 - 02:00 AM
Posted 30 December 2003 - 12:43 PM
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