56 replies to this topic

[Randy]

However, I think that what you mean by "SEO" and what the impression the majority have of "SEO" are two entirely different things.

I agree with the general premise, but...

It's somehow our fault that they're terribly misinformed?

Can we help it that they've been reading total from the wrong places?

[Jill]

However, I think that what you mean by "SEO" and what the impression the majority have of "SEO" are two entirely different things.

You may very well be right! My mission in life lately is to change that perception so that they know what SEO really is!

We actually agree. I do exactly what you do, you just don't call that SEO and I do.

[Ron Carnell]

... I get petrified with my sites whenever I see anything which could be considered SEO and I strip it out immediately because Google seems so punitive these days.

The only judge or jury that matters is the audience. People who do things to their site simply because they think the search engine will "like them better" are clearly listening to the wrong judge. However, those who do things to their site, or alternatively refuse to do things, just because the are "afraid" of the search engines really aren't in much better shape.

If I was forced to define "bad SEO," in all of its many guises, I suspect my definition would center around the misconception that search engines are The Enemy. That mindset, no matter HOW one chooses to react to it, almost inevitably brings negative results. It's a cliché dipped in sugar, but I think it's nonetheless true: Treat the SE as you would any friend and you'll have cause to neither fool nor fear them.

[cvos]

SEO is like painting a house. The more prep work you do, the easier the job will be to complete with satisfaction.

[Jill]

Treat the SE as you would any friend and you'll have cause to neither fool nor fear them.

I'll to that!

[LippedWriter]

Most of my traffic comes from Google, and then MSN and Yahoo! And I have good standings. But I find the search terms to often not be too relevant for them to buy something from an affiliate link or stay as a long-term reader (a lot of this has to do with many Internet stores not offering affiliate programs, but I care about a quality site, so I post about them, anyway). So I wonder if it is worth it. Even the keyword, "shoe blog" (what my site is) wouldn't give me sales (although it's ideal for long-term readers).

And yes, I noticed today that I was the FIRST actually relevant result for a search term, and I was # 7. Crap before me. The particular site is so very new, though. It's pretty good. I don't even have many links in.

[projectphp]

But I find the search terms to often not be too relevant for them to buy something from an affiliate link or stay as a long-term reader

The problem, in this case, isn't SEO, but your business model. The question "is it worth spending time to SEo a site that won't make any money anyway" is a different question, really, but onw well worth considering...

[Jill]

Welcome LippedWriter!

[OkieUnix]

Hi,

I've been reading everything here. I really hate to say it but I have been thru several SEO companies some have improved our traffic but not by leaps and bounds. Currently we are averaging about 168 to 188 visitors a day but our conversion rate is less than 1%.

We have spent as much as $10k to have this done and even more after 2 other SEO's worked
on the web site. To say the least it ISN'T WORTH it. That is my opinion cause converting
that traffic has been a royal pain the you know where.

One person I spoke with sort of made sense. Maybe our message to visitors is wrong.
i am not a marketing GURU and I like to understand better how that would help our
web site.

That doesn't make any sense so far and I am thoroughly confused and financially ruined
in terms of keeping the web site.

[Removed request for site review, as per [url=http://www.highrankings.com/forum/index.php?act=boardrules]Forum Rules[/url]. - Jill]

Edited by Jill, 14 May 2006 - 03:44 PM.

[jehochman]

Welcome Phillip.

I think your assessment is right on the money. You've made the mistake of spending money on SEO without having a proper marketing plan. What are benefits of your products? Who should buy them? Why should they buy from you instead of some place else? You need to answer those questions before you proceed.

[projectphp]

To say the least it ISN'T WORTH it.

Absolutely, in some cases it won't be worth it.

The problem for many people is that they go into it hoping for miracles or, worse, they have the funds to buy a Hyundai and expect a Ferrari.

SEO is very much often not worth it. In many industries, SEO is not worth it for smaller players. For many businesses in specific industries, SEO it is not worth it. And lastly, with the cost of many SEOs, it won't be worth it as there won't be enough revenue generated to cover the costs.

The trick, as with any marketing campaign, is to have some goals in place in the first place. The numbers you quote would be profitable for some, and disaster for others. I had a client once, paid $5K, and went from 0 to 6-8 SE referrals a day, and made over three quarters of a million dollars in contracts in the first few months. For other businesses, I doubt 6-8 referrals a day would lead to much of anything at all.

[the_host]

Spending 10k blindly on SEO is asking for trouble, but spending less than that and doing it wisely can be the best investment you'll ever make.

Either that or learn it ALL yourself

[projectphp]

I think the problem with this thread, and with most like this, is the question:

SEO is a lot of work, is it worth it?

It is too general. A better question would be:

SEO is a lot of work, and I wonder if in my industry and with my site, if SEO is worth it?

Whenever I read questions of SEO being dead, wortrh it, waste of time etc, I wonder how on earth there can be one answer to such a question when the world is so varied.

The first question anyone should ask themselves is how much you need to make back to justify SEO. If you feel that is plausible, go for it. If not, don't.

It really is a pretty simple equation!

[Martin C]

Currently we are averaging about 168 to 188 visitors a day but our conversion rate is less than 1%.

SEO is the process of ensuring a web page ranks well in the search results for relevant search terms.

How competitive your particular market is, how well established your organisation and the particular product or service you provide will generally dictate how many daily visitors that translates into.

Although in Internet terms you are seeing a relatively small amount of visitors you have to consider that if you had a bricks and mortar shop would getting 166 visitors through the door each day be regarded as good?

The answer is probably yes - the problem you then face is why do only 1% of those people coming through the door buy anything?

This is not an SEO issue, the SEO process stops when your web page has been found and your listing clicked on. Sure there is always the potential to increase the number of visits but if you don't improve the 1% conversion rate you are not addressing the whole issue.

Once SEO has done its thing and delivered you a reasonable number of potential customers you have to look at site design, navigation, copy, product/services, pricing and ordering process.

You are looking to increase sales, stickiness, loyalty and referrals, all of which are nothing to do with SEO.


I would always look at SEO as an investment, once you have done the hard work and providing you continue to maintain the basics, (add good content and build links), you should be able to maintain the SERP you achieve and then benefit from the free traffic it generates, (unlike PPC for example where the minute you stop paying for advertising position your web page disappears). If it has been hard for you to achieve a good SERP it will be just as hard for any other new business that has started, and anyone who does not invest in SEO will have no chance - doing nothing is not an option.

You need to now concentrate on the user experience, find out what people are doing once they arrive at the website. There are a number of good books on this subject.

It could be that your website is optimised for the wrong search terms but reading between the lines I suspect not. You seem to be on the right track, you just need to address the second half of the purchasing process.

Edited by Martin C, 15 May 2006 - 04:25 AM.

[Jill]

You are looking to increase sales, stickiness, loyalty and referrals, all of which are nothing to do with SEO.

Maybe not a few years ago, but it does today...it has to, as SEO cannot live in a vacuum.