56 replies to this topic

[Maverick4two]

I am building a site at the moment. It is highly optimized page by page for my chosen keywords, page by page, good density, prominence etc. During the refining process I was doing page analysis on my keyword phrase competition and I found that none of the first page results in google were optimised. They had poor word density, prominence and low quality links from link farms sites as there top links, and many had more than 100 links out. Half were links sites with no original content, the only content being adverts and links. The only common elements for the sites was they had a lot of links and were updated often.

The above makes me wonder is SEO really worth the effort, should I be expending my efforts in other areas instead? What really seems to give high ranking pages is links, updates and useful content not original good content, good word density, prominence and anchor tags.

I would be interested to hear other peoples views based on their experiences of keyword competition research, practical experience rather than theory.

[qwerty]

Welcome to HR, Maverick4two

Obviously, as an SEO, you can't expect me to say that it shouldn't be done But when you think about it, assuming you've been reading up in here before you made your first post, our philosophy around here is to make sites as good as they can be, and SEO is part of that process. It's not just about making the site easier to find in a search engine -- it's about making sure the site is on message and speaks directly to your audience.

In that context, I'd say it's a good idea to do it whether you have any competition or not. Besides, maybe the competition are going to figure out that they've got room for improvement, or somebody else is planning on making a big splash by breaking into the niche on top.

[Leann_Pass]

IS SOE REALLY WORTH IT?

YES!!!!!!! Absolutely. No doubt about it. Worth it!!!!!!! Just do it, or have it done RIGHT! God YES!


YES,
Leann (who may just be a little one-sided with the YES for SEO!!!!!!!!)

[juliesjewels]

Yes, SEO is totally "worth it" because in the long run your conversions should only increase or improve. You don't know the conversion rates of the competitor's sites you see in the SERP's. I'd bet that in the long run, with good SEO/SEM your conversion rates will beat their conversion rate anyday.

[projectphp]

The above makes me wonder is SEO really worth the effort, should I be expending my efforts in other areas instead?

To be eprfectly honest, no, not the way it sounds like you are doing it.

IMHO, SEO is a numbers game. More content is better than better content, to a degree, anyway. More links are better than "the perfect link", within reason. More visitors are better than less visitors, by and large.

Business is about allocating resources where they have the best retrun. Time, for a small business, is the most important resource. As such, if going back over what you have done and obsessing is not giving a positive return, do something else. Unless your work leads to more rewards than what building one extra page will, or what one extra link will, do that instead.

IMHO, instead of obsessing over work that is done, rethink your whole strategy. Start with what your non-SEO goals are e.g.:
1. What do you hope to achieve (e.g. $XYZ income per day / week / month / quarter, a business you can sell for $XYZ etc)?
2. What do you need to achieve this in terms of visitors?
3. What things can you do to grow repeat business?
4. What can you do to make your site better?

Remember, SEO is a means of generating new visitors, if you can keep old visitors coming back, you won't be as reliant on new visitors and the comings and goings of SEO. If you understand the ceilings on what you do, i.e. the point at which new work won't lead to large gains, you can look to do something else (like a new site / business) or just sit back and enjoy.

[Maverick4two]

Hi Querty,

Thanks for the welcome. Being on message and talking to your target audience is a given, basic marketing and my keywords are highly targeted to that audience. To me search engine optimization is about enabling your target audience to easily find you on the net. The point in my post was that what seems to work in practical reality for the words I have chosen was not keyword optimization but link building and updates.

I will, have optimised my site as I am building it. I have a links strategy and off line and online marketing strategy too but what I wanted to hear about was other peoples practical experience of keyword optimization verses links sites. Everything I have read has been about high quality, "high weight" links being the most important factor and optimization. My top ranking competion on three different keyword phrases have lots of poor quality links and don't look like they have heard of the word optimization and these are for well searched for words, millions per month on yahoo. So it does make me wonder if I have been wasting my time with SEO and all I have read and am putting into practise or if it will be worth while in the end.

What the links sites do well, and they make up half the first page results, is low weight links and updates. I think I can compet on links over time but the upadates every week I would have to add something to the site to do this, a legal cheat, sorry technique, like a forum or a feed.

---

projectphp

I did work out before I planned the site, traffic and conversions, income and a whole marketing plan off/online etc. My question was is SEO worth the effort ie time v return. The keyword competition is doing well with no SEO. If the SEO will really work then yes it will be worth the effort, I would get traffic 10 or 100 times my projections. My competion hasn't seemly put any resource into SEO. So yes as a small business it does make me wonder if I should not devote so much time to it, will it be worht it in the end.

Leann_Pass and juliesjewels thanks.

[Jill]

Welcome Maverick4two!

My question was is SEO worth the effort ie time v return.

If done right, then yes. If done wrong, then no.

The keyword competition is doing well with no SEO.

Perhaps you have a different idea of what SEO is than they do, or what we do.

Or perhaps you're choice of keyword phrases aren't ones that any one is actually optimizing for because there is no reason to.

So yes as a small business it does make me wonder if I should not devote so much time to it, will it be worht it in the end.

From your post, I'd say in your case it probably isn't worth it. Not if you have better things to spend your time on.

[projectphp]

...is SEO worth the effort ie time v return

Compared to what

Time is a resource. Resources are only "worth the effort" of expending if they return more than the value of the resource. So what is your time worth? What else could you do in that time, and what would that thing's benefits be? Which is better?

If you ask if it is worth it compared to designing a new logo, I would probably say yes. If you ask if it is worth it compared to doing your taxes, I would say no.

"Worth it" is all relative. Spend your time where it has the maximum benefit and you can't fail. You amy also want to redefimne exactly what SEO is and how you can do it better, faster and more effectively. Less time doin, more time getting better at doing (aka research) might be a profitable way to spend one's time.

[nuthin]

had someone ask me today about if SEO is worth it, compared to going the PPC route.

i found this interesting article at [http://www.allbusine...68/002509.html]

some keypoints that came out of that article were :

Over 80% of the test searches conducted, respondents
went to the "organic" search results.

and here's something else that interested me.

In fact, you may be interested to know that out of $4 billion spent on search marketing in 2004 over 80% went to PPC. Only 4.4% went to search engine optimization.

from a personal point of view, well alot of people in the industry over the past year or so moved into the PPC route, we have always continued on with "organic" SEO as our main core service.

we actually have very little to do with PPC and SEO is proving to be well worth it in the end. (if you know what your doing and can deliver results.)

all those PPC customers will eventually want some of that 80% of traffic that there missing and will eventually find there way to those select few professional SEO companies that have hung in there & stayed on the ball.

just my 0.02cents.

Edited by Jill, 28 July 2005 - 08:33 AM.

[excell]

I can say that the optimisation work we do pays off and does well on good search terms without us running around chasing links etc.

The only way you are going to know if it is worth it for you is by monitoring your own results after you get going with your creation. How it performs will give you the answer.

[kierslee]

See where you rank when your site is up and running. If you do, in fact, have better content and your optimization at construction is good enough then I'd say do other things instead of on-page seo. Links are extremely important as you know and has been said. If, on the other hand, your site goes live and doesn't rank up there with the competition or above them then, yes, you may need to do some more on page seo.

[xedis]

Yes and after that double yes!! :frog: If you really want your site to be ranked correctly, you'll need more than just a few links. Now if it is like you're saying and I quote "what seems to work in practical reality for the words I have chosen was not keyword optimization but link building and updates" well... you're wrong. SEO is the way

[SearchRank]

... is SEO really worth the effort, should I be expending my efforts in other areas instead? What really seems to give high ranking pages is links, updates and useful content not original good content, good word density, prominence and anchor tags.

If done correctly, then yes SEO is very worthwhile. If not done correctly, it is then a question of either how much time has been exhausted or money spent.

Remember, a complete SEO effort should consist of proper keyword research, thorough site optimization, cleaning up code if necessary, improve site usability, improve copy if necessary, inclusion in top directories (paid and free) and link building. That is a complete SEO strategy IMO. It is not just tweaking a few meta tags and adding some title tags. Is this what you had in mind when you asked "Is SEO really worth the effort?"

I ask because I get so many inquiries from potential clients who say they (or their current SEO) has done all that they can as far as SEO goes but with no results. I then review site and find so many things that are left undone.

[abertawe]

As part of your complete SEM programme YES.

I went to speech given by Vodafone and they placed great emphasis on organic listings. If a company that large finds it important then everyone should.

[garyding2003]

No matter whcih SE you are targeting, you should be patient. Well-seoed sites are the foundation for your site to take off.

It is no doult that searching engine will be NO.1 to bring traffic if you want huge traffic. So, your hard work is worth.

SEO is not an art of makting something out of nothing. If it were so, it should be cheatings.

Gary