16 replies to this topic

[SEO-Richard]

Hi all,

Given that Google's bought Kaltix, which is seen as I understand it as greater personalisation of SERPs, with cookies on the PC storing data - so that a SE has a pretty good guess what you're searching for, as opposed to a shot-in-the -dark guess (I exaggerate, but only a bit ) - will SEO still be relevant in the future?

Now, I'm thinking creatively as always - ideally a SE will know your mind-set andyour likes and dislikes, and be able to serve you up tailored results. But this leads to the conclusion that they'd also like to know what you THOUGHT of a website - did you bookmark it? How long did you stay on a particular page? Where did you go first, and where did you go next? The Google Toolbar might indicate that privacy issues are not a major concern for surfers, OR that there aren't major privacy issues - a cookie could be limited to storing a minimal amount of information - and store loyalty cards indicate that most people are prepared to give up a huge amount of personal info. for perceived benefits. So privacy will probably only be a temporary side issue, and all we're waiting for is the technology.

Then theSEs put all this info together in their database, and hey presto! They have an overview of the best websites.

Wonderful, but from a SEO POV, what can you do to compete against that? The big will get bigger, and the small will stay small - perhaps. If the SEs KNOW that site A is preferred to site G, no amount of optimisation will work for G - only new content, for which they don't need a SEO. Keyword stuffing and all other sorts of tricks will go by the board. For search term X, surfers prefer site A. Period. Site A is big and successful and works very hard at adding new content. Unlike in the real world, where any number of businesses can compete with each other, in the SE world the competition is restricted to the top 10 or 20. Breaking into that top 10 or 20 will require more than the services of a SEO - surely?


I'm putting this forward to get a reaction . What are the possibilities ? Any help

[Haystack]

SEO-Richard, I share your views of where this type of personalization could take us. The closest comparision I can think of is Amazon.com. For anyone who's used Amazon for a while, especially if they've bought quite a few things and also marked whether they've liked products they've bought from Amazon, they recs they've received from Amazon have likely been impressive.

However, there are also exceptions to this, like when a person purchases a 1-time purchase such as a books for a child, then ends up getting recommendations for other children's books. For privacy, I think many people are willing to give up some privacy for improved usability. This happens all the time on the web.

In the case of search, I'd be interested in seeing if Google could differentiate my business related searches from leisure. In my opinion, they shouldn't influence each other.

[SearchRank]

Interesting topic! This question is asked time and time again whether it be related to search engines monetizing search results, the consolidation of search portals or even this topic of personalization.

Personally I don't want a search engine to try to think for me. I know this is something that Bill Gates has wanted to do with his software and I hate it because it trys to second guess what I want to do. So you end up fighting with your software - "No I don't want you to do that, stop it! etc. etc." Therefore one such as myself simply disables the personalization.

Even if they do gather end user info on what sites they like the best, it will still play only a role in their over all algorithms. I believe content is king and will stay king. Therefore a site will great content will always do well even if it is not one of the "big boys".

Will there eventually be a need for SEOs? I guess it depends on what one things an SEO does. If an SEO is simply someone who writes a few meta tags and title tags, does some spamming techniques like keyword stuffing, cloaking and the like, then no, SEOs will eventually be extinct. But if a SEO does more than that, optimizes all aspects of a site - its title tags, its meta tags, its copy, its link structure, its usability, its link popularity, along with encompassing all the search engine marketing aspects - par per click, pay for inclusion, xml feeds, site sponsorships and the like, then I think SEOs have a long and bright future ahead of them.

Maybe there will be the day when the Microsofts, the Dells, the Amazons, etc. will dominate and snuff out the little guys but not on a regional scale. I think for those targeting their own regions there will always be a place for SEO. I am currently involved in a project where we are trying to update an Arizona construction directory we own and operate, removing address info and replacing with good descriptions. In the process of trying to find out what each of the sites listed in our directory offer, it is just absolutely astounding to me how many of them do not properly reflect who they are and what they do or offer in their title tags, their meta tags, their content - you name it. If they do have content, it's sales hype or poorly written. About 95% of the sites I review desperately need some good SEOing. Too bad that they just don't realize it. Their web sites don't work and they don't even know why. Makes me want to knock on there doors and say "Here I am! I can help you gain better visibility!"

So bottom line is I think even if SEs use personalization, there will still be the need for good SEO work.

[dragonlady7]

That's just what I was going to say, searchrank. I saw the thread's title and I thought, well, that depends on what you think SEO is. If SEO is, to you, getting your site to the top of Google for any conceivable keyword phrase related or unrelated, then I certainly hope the SE's get smart enough to work around htat.
However, if SEO is, to you, actually optimizing your site and not just for the SEs, then you'll do fine no matter what the SEs decide to do. If your work in SEOing consists mainly of ensuring that the website clearly states its purpose, using commonly-used search terms to present itself as clearly relevant for the searches it's actually relevant for, and using all HTML and other code cleanly for maximum effectiveness, then you're golden. Even if the SEs do something ridiculous that negates that, the results they return won't be relevant and so that SE will fail, and one that does actually look for relevant, clean results will become the new king.
As long as there aren't any other terrifying big-brother factors which we won't get into here.

[Scottie]

Keyword stuffing and all other sorts of tricks will go by the board. ... Breaking into that top 10 or 20 will require more than the services of a SEO - surely?

How is this a bad thing?

Yes, keyword stuffing SHOULD go by the wayside. Improving a site SHOULD be the goal of SEO as well as high rankings. What is the point of driving traffic to a site that isn't the best?

I don't think you have to be the biggest site or the most well-known name to be the best. The exact opposite... the internet (and personalization) gives creativity, usefullness, and content the edge over massive sites from "known" companies that don't do a very good job with what they have.

To me, it creates a real opportunity for niche markets- the ability to do well on targeted searches as well as regional ones.

[SEO-Richard]

Woh! Some thoughtful replies there!

Searchrank

Will there eventually be a need for SEOs? I guess it depends on what one things an SEO does. If an SEO is simply someone who writes a few meta tags and title tags, does some spamming techniques like keyword stuffing, cloaking and the like, then no, SEOs will eventually be extinct. But if a SEO does more than that, optimizes all aspects of a site - its title tags, its meta tags, its copy, its link structure, its usability, its link popularity, along with encompassing all the search engine marketing aspects - par per click, pay for inclusion, xml feeds, site sponsorships and the like, then I think SEOs have a long and bright future ahead of them.

This is what I was leading up to. My plan is to break into SEO - basically, right now, as a second income for the family, but in the not too long term with a view too maybe making a living out of it - but before I commit my thoughts to a site I wanted to figure out where SEO was heading. Keywords, meta tags etc - I want to make a site that's going to be relevant in the future, not just now, and these will play less and less of a part in SEO I think. It's heading towards marketing, usability, copywriting, holding a person on the site, getting them to buy, as I think has been mentioned before in threads here.
So I just wanted confirmation, and I think that what you wrote is confirmation - that is the general direction is headed.



Dragonlady

If your work in SEOing consists mainly of ensuring that the website clearly states its purpose, using commonly-used search terms to present itself as clearly relevant for the searches it's actually relevant for, and using all HTML and other code cleanly for maximum effectiveness, then you're golden.

I think this is where good SEOs are now, but I'm not sure that's where they'll be in the future. I can see marketing, site usability, copywriting etc. being a major part of the SEO job.




scottiecl

Improving a site SHOULD be the goal of SEO as well as high rankings.

To me, it creates a real opportunity for niche markets- the ability to do well on targeted searches as well as regional ones.

Yeah, agree. Website consultants rather than just SEOs; plus a knowledge of the local geographical market .... there's lots to think about here. Looks like the future of the SEO is going to take a quantum leap change soon.



Thanks everyone, that's given me plenty of food for thought

[dragonlady7]

>marketing, site usability, copywriting etc.

That's what I was talking about. You need to have all those things in a decently-SEO'd site in order for the site to
>clearly states its purpose
etc.
It has to have a purpose defined (marketing!), has to clearly state it (clear to read, clear to navigate), and has to have decent code as well. SEO already is the whole package, if done properly. I think SEO as a fly-by-night and somewhat shady deal is doomed for failure, but "holistic" (in that it addresses the whole picture) SEO is the way of the future. Not just SEO, but just plain site optimization. I should think it ought to be part of website design to begin with, but perhaps that's overly optimistic of me.

[Randy]

In the case of search, I'd be interested in seeing if Google could differentiate my business related searches from leisure. In my opinion, they shouldn't influence each other.

I think that would have to be a given Ed. Something akin to allowing you to set up different "Users" or personalities, and most likely the option of choosing to search using none of them.

In my mind that would have to be an option, if for no other reason than in many household and businesses multiple people may use the same computer. You wouldn't want little Billy Jr getting all of daddy's adult sites every time he used the computer for homework.

[Scottie]

You wouldn't want little Billy Jr getting all of daddy's adult sites every time he used the computer for homework.

Why not? He's going to see them anyway, whether he's trying or not!



Sorry- just got through cleaning out my 7-year-old's e-mail account that is only used for e-mailing relatives and I am totally disgusted with the adult spam mail he's getting. I am deeply upset with my ISP which is the only entity with a record that the e-mail address even exists.

I knew they were selling e-mail lists when my first e-mail after signing up for the account was spam. Now I'm considering closing his account and just having the relatives use my account. Either that, or I have to preview his account everytime he checks his mail.

ARGH!!

[Randy]

ewwww Sorry to hear that Scottie. I hate when that happens.
<off topic>
You could do like I do. My daughter's email account is set up on one of my domains. Technically one of my "family" domains that I don't use for anything else, just bought it for the heck of owning my own name so that nobody else could. LOL

Since I have 100% control over the server and the domain... I don't have to worry about it getting out to anyone unless one of the relatives or her friends contract some type of virus that scans their address book. It's happened twice, and it takes me exactly two seconds to set her up a new address and toast the old one.
</topic>

[OldWelshGuy]

Well this is my take on the way search engines (esp Google) will go, they will indeed place cookies on machines, these will indeed deliver a more personal set of serps, but, IF i were heading up a search engine, i would have these cookies aggregated, ie i would combine all the data to filter out the poor sites from the serps, and filter IN the sites where people are spending time.

Let me explain, a website was discussed here recently, the web developers resource or something like, that had changed ownership and was being delivered as a web info page due to poor algo giving more value to links than content. Now presumably everyone who hit this site thought without delay, @this is not what i want' and buggered off via the back button. The cookie would then send the info that this site was visited for 1.2 seconds, this would down grade this sites ranking as a bad source of information for the search term that it was found on.

Put this across the board, and suddenly the web is a better place, as the search results are now based not only on SEO methods to get you into the search results, but MORE importantly how long visitors stay on your website.

What keeps visitors on your website? CONTENT this is just my take and how i would use the tools available, but IMO if we keep it real, then it is the phantom sites and the spammers who should be worried, because under the above system, if the customer asks for fish and chips, and you give them a beef dinner then fish and chips will be off the menu for you for a long time.

[SEO-Richard]

I should think it ought to be part of website design to begin with, but perhaps that's overly optimistic of me.

Slightly off topic, but I've been checking out broadband ISP sites - one that's recommended, who you would think was on the ball, was way off beam as far as the SEs are concerned. It's a wonder they get found. I checked out their TITLE tag on Google just as a quick indicator to how well they could be found, and it's not within the top 20. This is a company that's presumably meant to know what it's doing. Very prettily designed, though confusing, and certainly not optimised for SEs.
So what DO they teach at college?

this is just my take and how i would use the tools available, but IMO if we keep it real, then it is the phantom sites and the spammers who should be worried,

Old WelshGuy - what about all the Viagra sites at SpamCentral? People want Viagra, which ones will be at the top of the SERPS? Whichever ones they are, they'll all have something spammy about them. Maybe big flashing banners, flashing arrows - I can't imagine they'll all be restrained and thoughtful sites (I'm joking here, exaggerating). So when is spam not spam? If it's what the customer wants, that Las Vegas feel (no pun intended), is it spam? It'll be still be around I reckon - personalisation might in fact lead to dumbing down, as now the consumer has an input, and not just a SE algo. created by brainboxes.

[OldWelshGuy]

So when is spam not spam?

Seo richard, you missed my point, if someone puts in viagra or such other search terms, and that is what they get, then thats fine, even in this case the sites that are rubbish will hold their visitors for mere seconds, wheras the sites that are well designed, and engage their visitors will score more highly, so that way the spammy lets redirect you viagra websites will slip down the ratings, whereas the genuine 'we sell viagra' sites will rise to the top.

Spam is not spam when someone asks for spam (the actual spam meat) if you ask for spam and chips and get spam and chips then you are a satisfied customer. If you ask for spam and chips, but get served up with a menu of spam and chips that asks you what you want, (as is the case these days more and more search directories are filling the top spots on SERPS) then you are going to be on that page for mere seconds before going to another url, so that would score it down.

But this is all in 'MY' little world, and what influence do i have?

[SEO-Richard]

Spam is not spam when someone asks for spam (the actual spam meat) if you ask for spam and chips and get spam and chips then you are a satisfied customer.

True! I was only kicking ideas around anyway, to see where they ended up. I shall ponder on a definition of Spam. It intrigues me: I'm sure it will always be there, but the nature of it will change.

Anyway, enough of that.....

[websage]

Let's step back and think of what is the purpose of a search engine's existence -- to guide internet users and save them from information overflow.

What is the purpose of search engine optimization -- in my humble opinion, the role of SEO is no different than that of a search engine, as in helping to enhance the relevancy of SERP. By optimizing sites of solid content and enabling them to rank highly on SERP, SEO should in fact work in harmony with the mission of the search engines. In a world in which the editorial content of search directories is overshadowed by the vast indexes and improving algorithms of search engine, the role of SEO would be exactly that of enhancing SERP by helping the SE find and rank higher that gem of content.

Of course all of this implies ethical work on both the SE and SEO part...

"Truthfulness of the foundation of all human virtues"