12 replies to this topic

[mcanerin]

This isn't really a rant, but I offer my SEO services to web designers so that they can co-brand it and it's just part of "their" package for customers.

I recently had some discussions with a very talented website designer who wanted to offer SEO as part of her website package. My standard pricing was a bit high for some of her clients, and too low for others, so I worked out a "starter" "standard" and "eCommerce: package pricing for her and sent off the info in an email.

Then I updated the pricing info in my own site. Shortly after I finished, I received an email from her saying that she'd put the prices into her site and asked me to check it out to make sure it was ok.

I went there and my jaw dropped! Was that me? Damn it. My site looks like crap compared to what this designer had put up. Exact same information, but the side to side comparision was, well, depressing. It's a good thing I don't do web design anymore - I'd be pretty annoyed (actually, I am anyway, but that's ok )

Has this ever happened to you? Someone able to present you far better than you could present yourself? It's the first time it's happened to me so it's a bit of a shock. It's a good thing I'm working with designers like this instead of competing with them...

Ian

[dragonlady7]

man... my boyfriend's sister is a graphic designer, and I just recently saw her wedding album.
It absolutely floored me. I mean... it was just beautiful. Wedding albums are anyway but holy cow, hers was like nothing you've ever seen.
There is NOTHING like a good designer. We may malign the heck out of them for not knowing SEO, but the good ones can make the most mundane things breathtaking.
If only, if only, if only I had any money at all, I would have her design my site and it would be gorgeous. I would become vain and have it be my home page and I'd click through the whole thing every morning just to look at how SHINY it was.

Sigh.

Sadly, I've never had anyone present me better than i present myself, which is sad because i don't present myself well. Oh well...

[meta]

Has this ever happened to you? Someone able to present you far better than you could present yourself? It's the first time it's happened to me so it's a bit of a shock. It's a good thing I'm working with designers like this instead of competing with them...

Ian

Well, that's why we specialize. Designers design, SEOs do SEO, salespeople sell. When all of us get together, we called it "teamwork" and it's a good thing.

[mcanerin]

Well, that's why we specialize. Designers design, SEOs do SEO, salespeople sell. When all of us get together, we called it "teamwork" and it's a good thing.

now, if I could only convince more IT types of that. It seems that most companies I approach have the "computer guy" who does network admin, website design and all the other stuff. These guys (and usually they ARE guys) tend to be so territorial it's unbelievable.

If you put up the website years ago and it's still not indexed or showing up in the serps, what makes you think you don't need seo? Or that you have the time to do it? <sigh>

My favorite part is when they tell me they have already added metatags so they don't need my services, now goodbye. umm, ok....

It is about teamwork. The internet is so complicated now that the one size fits all scenario just doesn't work. And it's not about ability (for the most part), it's about *time*. One person simply can't keep up on all the new information in all the areas of website development and promotion. Lord knows I try to, but some days I have trouble just keeping up with this darn forum!

I mean, do you think your family doctor is incompetent because she refers you to a specialist? Do you think less of her? Do you insist that she do the heart surgery herself because it's cheaper and she already knows you?

I think what SEO's need most is for the rest of the computer industry to figure out that it's not just "something you throw in", but rather an important, even critical, part of a website.

Ok, it did turn into a rant. Sorry.

Ian

[dragonlady7]

Don't worry, dear-- it's a good place for a rant.
The problem is not that the web needs more specialists. It's that the web needs more general practitioners smart enough to give referrals.

I've had enough to drink that I think that's really, really deep. (old family headache remedy. we don't trust the white man's meidcine. We can't spell it either. This is the first time in a while I've thought to run a post of mine through the spellchecker.*)
(*I was gonna. But it loaded too slow. So much for consideration.)

[Jill]

The beauty of affiliates is that they're supposed to promote you better than you do yourself.

It rarely happens though, except with the super affiliates.

Jill

[SEOCub]

I have heard of star affiliate - used to describe a well performing affiliate but not super affiliate. What is a super affiliate? How is a super affiliate different from a regular affiliate?

[RayGonzalez]

Working with web designers or web design companies can be benificial but you have to be careful.

We tired the whole co-branding idea, we even had one company that we were totally behind the scenes, they didn't want their clients to even know we existed.

At one point we worked with multiple design companies, most didn't produce that big of ROI for us.

We even had one of the companies scam our techniques, then they offered it cheaper than we do. They simply waited long enough to figure out what we did.

Luckily for us their results haven't been that great.

Now we only work with one design company, GravityFree.
They are truly awesome.
In fact we offer web design, development and everything else and we contract them to do the work for us.

The whole idea of team work is what I think people are missing.
GravityFree specializes in design, we specialize in marketing.
It is a perfect fit.

In fact they designed our site and we have a new one in the works already.

I would like to point out though we have signed contracts for exclusivity.
They won't work with another SEO firm and we won't work with another design company.

Every client that either company approaches gets pitched on both companies services. We typically attend sales meetings together.

We are up front with the potential clients and they seem to understand and like the idea of us working in conjunction.

We literally work on every project together.
We want to make sure that every site is at least search engine friendly.

I believe the biggest benefit for us, is that their designers and programmers have gone through our SEO training. Each site is created with SEO in mind.
It is actually part of the design "standards" now.

Therefore it make is quicker and easier for us to optimize and maintain sites, which saves our clients money.

The results back it up to, everyone of the sites we have worked on together performs better than sites that we didn't have any imput as to the design and structure of the site.

My recommendation would be to find a real Partner not just someone interested in being an affiliate.

Hope this helps.


Ray Gonzalez

[mcanerin]

That's a really good point Ray. I'll have to think about that a bit more.

Up to now it hasn't been an issue for me since I'm only doing work for designers I already know, but I could see how you could get into some serious issues if you do a "come one, come all" approach to SEO affiliates (or any other form of partnering, for that)

Ian

[dragonlady7]

I am interested in learning about how affiliates work. I can see how it's beneficial to everyone to work together, but it's less hassle to remain independent in that you don't have to worry about the other company's payroll etc., and you don't have to set workday policies in accordance with their practices, and so on. There's just a lot of junk that goes into a business, and having the benefit of a design team without having to concern yourself at all with their accounting and attendant stuff is most likely invaluable.
But, you're certainly at risk of having someone exploit the favored relationship if you're not careful and thorough about it.
I'm certainly going to have to devote more thought to this! Contracts, like everywhere else, seem to be key.

[RayGonzalez]

When we first got started I was willing to work with any designer and tried to work out a deal with a design studio in every state.

It did create a nightmare.

Now we are very lucky to have such an awesome partner.

We are capable of doing design and they capable of doing SEO, but each of us would rather have our specialities.

We worked out internal procedures between the two companies and since we work together on most every project it is more like having two divisions or offices. One in Tampa and one in Sarasota.

I think it boils down to what the two companies are willing to do for each other and how they protray it to clients and potential clients.

Contracts are extremely important.

[BrianR]

I've been working exclusively with a graphic & website designer for nigh on 9 years now - I do the marketing, copywriting, SEO stuff.

No contracts at all - it's all based on trust - and so far, it's worked very well indeed.

BrianR

[OldWelshGuy]

Re: plagiarism, I recently was invited to a Government business lunch thing where the topic was web site design & usability,the guest speaker was a friend of mine who specialises in SEO work, his wife moonlights in web design.

Anyhow, he didn't know i was going to be there, nor did i know he was a speaker, I am not sure who was the reddest, me in anger, or him in embarrassment, as he gave a 20 minute talk on how HE designed his site, and the whole customer nitty gritty business thing, that I had e mailed him almost a year ago when i designed and optimised his site. He did nothing at all to it, the only thing he and his moonlighting wife did was some photoshop graphics, as this is the one weak point i have, and i can't be arsed to spend hours learning photoshop.

After the initial shock of hearing him spout my customer evaluation methods etc, I found it really funny, and the more i tried not to the more i wanted to burst out laughing. Finally as he summed up, he said as an afterthought, 'I feel i should quote the original source material was sent to me by ', and he plugged me and my company.

It did make me wonder though just how many interlopers do ride on the backs of our hard learned knowledge?