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Tweak Or Not For The New Google Update


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42 replies to this topic

#31 clanmesa

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 01:07 PM

QUOTE(Jill @ Feb 19 2005, 11:12 AM)
It is weird that you'd drop that much.  (I just realized who Patrick Warburton is -- Puddy on Seinfeld...cool!)

There's nothing inherently wrong with the site, so I'm at a loss.  Randy's suggestion of seeing if you can get the other fan sites to link to this official one may certainly help. 

Hopefully, it's just a temporary glitch.
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IMDB has a link to his site (they're number 1&2, still). TVTome has a link. On all of these top players, if there was a way to contact them (even through "Who Is") and ask for a link to Patrick's site, I have, and they do. I did a patrickwarburton. +com in the Google toolbar, and he has beaucoup backlinks. If I enter "patrickwarburton" he comes up at number 3. If I enter "Patrick Watburton's official website," he comes in in the top 10, But if I just enter his name, nuthin, nada, zilch. Considering he's been at number 3 for "Patrick Warburton" (the search term people are most likely to enter if they want to find out more about him) for months now, this is just weird.

BTW, his site was just indexed yesterday. I'm hoping that in a few days, things will shake out.

Yeah, Patrick is married to my baby sister...

Even if there's nothing inherently wrong with the site, I'd welcome suggestions to make it better. I'll take all suggestions under advisement.

#32 Jill

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 02:21 PM

QUOTE
Yeah, Patrick is married to my baby sister...


How cool...he's totally cute! smile.gif

#33 clanmesa

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 04:31 PM

QUOTE(Jill @ Feb 19 2005, 03:21 PM)
How cool...he's totally cute! smile.gif
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He's all right. ;-)

#34 dzinerbear

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Posted 19 February 2005 - 05:57 PM

Hey all, I haven't been around here for a while, been busy running my sites.

Argos, I think the absolute worst thing you can do is get too bent out of shape about the major and minor shifts. I know it's hard when your livelihood depends so much on search engines, but try and relax.

I work in the online adult business and it's very competitive. Until this recent update I had been steadily climbing for a very good keyword phrase: from nowhere to be found, to 18, to 12, to 10, to 7, and then, back down to 20. I was initially freaked, but I see what's ahead of me and they won't be there for long. And it's not all bad, at the same time, my main page jumped from a PR 1 to a PR 2. Things will bounce back as they settle.

I think it could prove disastrous to listen too much to the chatter about these updates. Jill is trying to steer you in the right direction: is your site as good as it can be for your surfers?

Back in November 2003 there was a lot of rumblings that Google was going to start penalizing sites that were over optimized. I read the brou-ha-ha and started getting scared. I made a very bad mistake and changed my file-naming structure to avoid what I thought was a big Google spanking coming down the pipe. At the SEM Conference in May 2004 in Toronto, I asked about the rumoured punishment, and everyone on the panels concurred that how I had my site constructed before the rumours was totally appropriate. I lost six months of potentially good traffic from search engines and had that much more to fix up.

Relax. Work on your site. Stop checking the rankings every day. You're going to drive yourself nuts. Try and put that energy into making your site better in ways that you think it needs.

Cheers
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#35 Scottie

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 12:32 AM

offtopic.gif
Sorry, just had to get in my thumbup1.gif for Patrick Warburton as well. I'm with Jill, he's a hunk.

Loved him in the Emperor's New Groove... he's so funny.

Squeak, squeakety, squeak, squeak. (He speaks squirrel.)

OK, back to the regularly scheduled topic...

#36 Argos

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 06:48 AM

QUOTE
Relax. Work on your site. Stop checking the rankings every day. You're going to drive  yourself nuts. Try and put that energy into making your site better in ways that you think it needs.


Yes you are right I never use to look so much at my rankings and I will drive myself nuts. Somedays its has Nr1 ranking and somedays 10th for same keywords it seems like I have different ranking in different Google servers. I will see how long I can wait before I freak out. I am reeally happy with my site, my customers have praised and said its very easy site to use.

However I did change some internal linking with some important keywords and it did help little.

#37 excel30

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 07:49 PM

As regards the Patrick Warburton sites,

theres not really much content on the site, and most of the pages link to content on other sites.

View his filmograpghy for example and all the links of each film link to other sites, they are the sites with content related to patrick warburton

In my opinion get more content on your site

Linking back to your index page using "Home",,,,,,,,,,,link back with "Patrick Warburton"

Probably loads more little things that need to be done as well.

#38 clanmesa

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE(excel30 @ Feb 20 2005, 08:49 PM)
As regards the Patrick Warburton sites,

theres not really much content on the site, and most of the pages link to content on other sites.

View his filmograpghy for example and all the links of each film link to other sites, they are the sites with content related to patrick warburton

In my opinion get more content on your site

Linking back to your index page using "Home",,,,,,,,,,,link back with "Patrick Warburton"

Probably loads more little things that need to be done as well.
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The thing is (and yes, I've been thinking about the content thing myself), the top-rated site (#1 and 2), IMDB, is essentially nothing more than Patrick's filmography page. Many other sites in the top ten are the same. Very little content.

I am thinking, though, of eliminating his bio page and putting that on the home page.

And usability-wise, "Home" is what users expect to find on a website, so they know where they started from and can go back to it if necessary. I think, considering that the whole site is about Patrick Warburton, that naming the home page "Patrick Warburton" would just confuse them. I'm more interested in not confusing my users than I am with ranking #1 on Google.

Sigh...I am working on the backlinks, though.

Thanks for your thoughts!

#39 torka

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE(clanmesa @ Feb 20 2005, 10:16 PM)
And usability-wise, "Home" is what users expect to find on a website, so they know where they started from and can go back to it if necessary. I think, considering that the whole site is about Patrick Warburton, that naming the home page "Patrick Warburton" would just confuse them. I'm more interested in not confusing my users than I am with ranking #1 on Google.
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You can do both, MHO. thumbup1.gif Why not name the links something like "Patrick Warburton Index" or "Patrick Warburton Home Page"? Yeah, the whole site is about him, but users didn't necessarily enter on the home page (so when they go there, they're not always "going back" to that page -- it may be one they haven't been to yet).

And it does explain what the page is -- it's the index or home page to the site about P.W. -- as well as getting his name into the anchor text of the link, which will help with ranking the home page higher on Google for those words. MHO, it's both usable and SEO-friendly. cheers.gif

I know this is a Google thread, but how are you doing on Yahoo/MSN? If Google is the only "problem child" in the bunch, then the issue is most likely insufficient links, specifically not enough links with his name in the anchor text. If the other two are also not doing as well as you would like, you probably should consider taking a look at the on-page text to see where that can be beefed-up.

My penny.gif HTH! smile.gif

--Torka mf_prop.gif

#40 excel30

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 07:44 AM

Regarding "Patrick Warburton"

Look at the top site on google, you say "not much content", but it links out to info on all his movies etc,,,,,so essentially that is content,,info on him,,,if its not much content,,,why are you linking to it as well,

Now importantly,,,notice how every page that links out from that page also links back to Patrick Warburton page with the link text " Patrick Warburton"

Thats one reason why that page is ranked so high and yours is nowhere.

Can you ask for permission to get the film reviews etc on your site? 1 page for each movie,,,all linking back to your "Patrick Warburton" index page

Also look at your other pages on your site, at least once on each page whenever you use the text "Patrick Warburton" make it into a text link to your index page,

Googles not a quick fix,,,but without the above changes and realising from above where you have been going wrong, then you will never get high again on this term.

#41 clanmesa

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE(excel30 @ Feb 21 2005, 08:44 AM)
Regarding "Patrick Warburton"

Look at the top site on google, you say "not much content", but it links out to info on all his movies etc,,,,,so essentially that is content,,info on him,,,if its not much content,,,why are you linking to it as well,

Now importantly,,,notice how every page that links out from that page also links back to  Patrick Warburton page with the link text " Patrick Warburton"

Thats one reason why that page is ranked so high and yours is nowhere.

Can you ask for permission to get the film reviews etc on your site?  1 page for each movie,,,all linking back to  your "Patrick Warburton" index page

Also look at your other pages on your site, at least once on each page whenever you use the text  "Patrick Warburton" make it into a text link to your index page,

Googles not a quick fix,,,but without the above changes and realising from above where you have been going wrong, then you will never get high again on this term.
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All of the other sites in the top rankings are sites that cover many more actors than just Patrick. They're totally different sites than his official website -- most provide database-generated pages about the specific person. Perhaps therein lies the problem. On those sites it makes sense to have the links to the home page be "home," but links to the page(s) about Patrick be "Patrick Warburton." Even IMDB has a home page, but people aren't interested in their home page, they're interested in the actor they're searching for in the database. And *EVERYBODY* links to IMDB, and not just for Patrick Warburton.

In fact, knowing what I know about the sites in the top 10, at least, they're ALL database-generated. Perhaps that's a clue to the changes Google made, especially since, as imperfect as his site is, it was at #3 for many months until they made the change. I must have been doing something right...until they changed the algorithm. So much for dynamically-generated pages not being search engine-friendly.

Patrick's site is a different kind of site. The whole site is his. People (usually his fans) already know they're on his official website. I'm concerned that the user is going to get confused if they click on a link with his name on it, and it jumps to his home page. I think I'll broach this subject on his forum and ask his users what they think.

I've also been trying to get Patrick's site listed in DMOZ/Open Directory for the last year, but they still haven't done anything about it. I recently (very nicely) asked about it on the Open Directory's forum, and was essentially told, "We'll get to it when we get to it. The time frame is totally random and there is no basis for expectation as to when it *might* appear. Go away." I even inquired about becoming an editor. I heard nothing.

I did think, though, and have broached the idea to his wife to talk to him about, an interview with him that I would do (thank you, journalism classes) and that would appear on his home page. I'd periodically interview him again.

As you can see, I've really been trying to analyze this. In the meantime, I'm working on back links.

You've given me much to think about. I will see if I can incorporate your ideas naturally into the page

#42 clanmesa

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 12:13 PM

QUOTE(torka @ Feb 21 2005, 12:40 AM)
I know this is a Google thread, but how are you doing on Yahoo/MSN? If Google is the only "problem child" in the bunch, then the issue is most likely insufficient links, specifically not enough links with his name in the anchor text. If the other two are also not doing as well as you would like, you probably should consider taking a look at the on-page text to see where that can be beefed-up.

My penny.gif HTH! smile.gif

--Torka mf_prop.gif
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He's at number 5 in Yahoo for keyphrase "Patrick Warburton," but the url is the one with the WWW in it. The day before yesterday I created a 301 redirect to http://patrickwarburton. That should help, too. His inner pages have a higher PR because of this.

The other SE rankings are:

MSN #5 (patrick warburton) - url without www

Alta Vista #5 - with www

Dogpile #18 - with www

Ask Jeeves #11 - www

Lycos #11 - www

Teoma #11 -www

All the Web #5 -www

Google - not in the first 1,000!

**You all have been most patient and generous with your advice. I really appreciate it!

#43 torka

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Posted 21 February 2005 - 05:10 PM

Yep, given what you say I'd bet it's links.

See, IMDB for instance, has a lot of PR to pass along from their top-level pages, because so many people link to them. So when they link to their PW page with his name in the anchor text, it really packs a wallop, as you've just found out.

And especially if there was any possibility that your link pop was getting split between the www and non-www versions of his URL... well... smile.gif

Good luck getting Google straightened out! flowers.gif

--Torka mf_prop.gif




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