81 replies to this topic

[Mike Grehan]

I came into the search game from a strong marketing background. My approach has always been about customer acquisition and retention. Not about ranking for the sake of it.

Anyone reading this who has trained formally as a marketer will be able to discuss underlying social factors in mass media communications. This is because you will have been taught much theory behind consumer behaviour.

Experiments such as Pavlov's dogs, where he discovered "conditioned response" and Skinner's experiments with rats have led to a better understanding of what we know in marketing terms as "behaviourism." And Maslow's theory of "the hierarchy of needs" for human beings presented an insight to the psychological aspect of motivation and priority.

Mass media advertising messages are creatively developed to tap into fear, humour, desire and other emotional aspects. Before an advertising agency spends millions of dollars of its clients money on messages targeting human beings, there's a great deal of research goes into the psychological aspects of the target group to be able to identify traits and opinion leaders (among a multitude of other things).

It's not just about making a cool ad in the Caribbean with Jennifer Aniston. There's a whole lot more to it.

When presenting a creative brief to a client, I always ensured that there would also be a rationale based on consumer behaviour to support the creative execution. And that always helped to assure my clients that I had "done my homework" before committing huge sums of money.

So there are two sides to conventional marketing, the psychological study of consumers which covers much theory and experimentation over the years and the actual execution of a campaign.

I find much the same in search engine marketing. SEO itself is child's play to understand and execute. It's hardly rocket science. But information retrieval on the web is about as close as you'll get to rocket science, in our industry.

So when a client asks me about linkage data, for instance, I make sure that when I explain tactically what we're doing by link building that she understands at least the fundamentals of social network analysis as it's applied to the web.

When a client asks me why we're doing a certain thing to specific pages, I'd hate to say "I don't know, you just have to." I want my clients to be assured that they are dealing with someone who has "done his homework." Just as I did in conventional marketing.

Does the client need to know about latent semantic indexing, as was mentioned earlier? I doubt it. But what if they do ask you about it because they read about it in a forum. What do you say: "oh it's just some scientific rubbish you don't need to know about."

This is a developing market and still very immature. Having an understanding of how search engines really work (but really) and using a language that the search engine researchers and developers themselves use, will unify the industry and help us grow our reputation into something much more advanced than the bunch of meta tag writers we're so often viewed as.

Talking about classic SEO may be boring at times. But the science of information retrieval on the web, which we come into contact with every day, is fascinating, I believe. And having a better understanding of what's happening "under the hood" helps us all to get a better gauge on where the technology is going and where we should be strategically focusing our efforts on behalf of our clients.

The science behind information retrieval on the web is still in its infancy. It's a new science which didn't exist prior to the invention of the world wide web. I certainly want to be as well informed about it as I can be. I have a business to run and clients to satisfy. It would be very difficult to do that if I had no idea of future developments in the technology and where this emerging industry is headed. Rather like driving in the dark without your headlights on I guess.

Is talking about SEO boring? Not for me at all. It just depends which way you come at it.

Just me thinking aloud, of course.

[Big Bill]

Experiments such as Pavlov's dogs, where he discovered "conditioned response" and Skinner's experiments with rats have led to a better understanding of what we know in marketing terms as "behaviourism." And Maslow's theory of "the hierarchy of needs" for human beings presented an insight to the psychological aspect of motivation and priority.

Have you been reading Mandelbrot, Mike? I'm thinking that arguably fractal geometry is somehow applcable to PR. Thoughts?

BB

[projectphp]

Ah, who was that masked Marketer ?? Nice points to consider, Mike.

[Jill]

Does the client need to know about latent semantic indexing, as was mentioned earlier? I doubt it. But what if they do ask you about it because they read about it in a forum. What do you say: "oh it's just some scientific rubbish you don't need to know about."

Umm...yeah, pretty much!

I forgot to mention that talking about SEO is mostly only boring when Mike's the one doing it! Just kidding Old Bloke!

[Mike Grehan]

Have you been reading Mandelbrot, Mike? I'm thinking that arguably fractal geometry is somehow applcable to PR. Thoughts?

BB

Bill,

Yes, I'm familiar with Mandelbrot. In fact, my friend and new team mate at SES, Dr Edel Garcia (AKA Orion) has an excellent paper "The Fractal Nature of Semantics" here:

http://www.miislita....ls/fractal.html

I think you'll find it to be very interesting.

(Providing you can get through it with the sound of Jill snoring in the background

[arlen]

As an outsider, this has been an interesting thread to follow.

Boredom is a symptom of specialization ... it's the world we live in, not specific to any industry. I'm an architect by trade, and after 16 years in architecture come to launching my own unrelated online business at least partly due to boredom. Not that architecture is boring, but architects are no longer "master builders" - they are specialists, focused on doing one thing or set of things as a part of a team, and doing it well. The truly bored or technically incapable move right into management, the rest find their niche, design, detailing, special systems, etc., and are stuck for eternity doing the same basic tasks over and over and over. You have to know everything, each project brings new challenges, but 90% of the actual work is ultimately grunt work.

No disrespect intended to those who do, but I'm just thankful I'm not manning the same machine on the factory floor year after year after endless year. Face it, we're all a bunch of spoiled intellectuals.

~~~

I'm a forum addict (if it wasn't obvious) but I don't know how you all are able to stick with this, explaining the basics to newbies over and over ... I'm thankful you do, but don't understand it. I participate in at least a dozen forums, though never more than one or two at a time ... usually getting really obsessed with learning all I can about one thing then finding another interest to exhaustively research online. It's the learning opportunities that forums bring that keep me coming back and seeking new ones. Glad you guys are here ...

Edited by arlen, 10 February 2005 - 10:37 AM.

[Mike Grehan]

Umm...yeah, pretty much!

I forgot to mention that talking about SEO is mostly only boring when Mike's the one doing it!   Just kidding Old Bloke!

Now then, young Jill Whalen - stop picking on old folks. Especially when it's my birthday today (unashamed plug for congratulations on reaching half a century).

I may have to put you over my knee at SES and give you a good hard spanking young lady!

[qwerty]

You see why it's important to fill in your profile? Had you entered your birthday, OWG would have started a Happy Birthday Old Mike thread in the Pub this morning, and you'd have been accosted with posts like this:

Happy Birthday, Mike

[Big Bill]

I can just picture you all out on the patio like grumpy old men and women.

"oh it's not like the old days the young ones have no respect anymore, we used to work 26 hrs a day and all for the pitiful some of $1000.00 an hour" 

All this used to be fields.....heh-heh.

BB

[Big Bill]

Bill,

Dr Edel Garcia (AKA Orion) has an excellent paper "The Fractal Nature of Semantics" here:

http://www.miislita....ls/fractal.html

I think you'll find it to be very interesting.

I had a quick peek and bookmarked it, thanks. I hate it when there's an idea churning around in my head (not often a problem, admittedly) and I can't find the right stimulus to provoke catharsis.

BB

[Mike Grehan]

You see why it's important to fill in your profile? Had you entered your birthday, OWG would have started a Happy Birthday Old Mike thread in the Pub this morning, and you'd have been accosted with posts like this:

Why thank you very much, qwerty! That post looks a lot like my nights out with Jill, Scottie and Christine at SES!

Wonder if should start posting as "owld English guy" now (actually, I met old welsh guy in London last year - I know his secret identity - and he's just a whippersnapper by comparison

[Big Bill]

Wonder if should start posting as "owld English guy" now (actually, I met old welsh guy in London last year - I know his secret identity - and he's just a whippersnapper by comparison 

That would make me even Owlder English Guy - but I'll just stick with my Silver Surfer ID.

BB

[e-breaks]

......I don't know how you all are able to stick with this, explaining the basics to newbies over and over ...

I am certainly classed as one of the 'newbies' .....I presume the reason that most SEO expert forum-dwellers 'stick with it' is because without [the naive, un-initiated etc] 'newbies' posting to the forum then it would simply turn into an incestuous club of SEO experts, fine for a while but like any business that starts to say "business is great but it would be better if only we didn't have to deal with the customers", then eventually the 'newbies'/'future customers' will stay away....... turkeys voting for Xmas/Thanksgiving springs to mind

[Hyperformance]

I knew there was Black Hat, now we're onto Black Mask?

Happy Birthday Mike!

[OldWelshGuy]

Happy Birthday Mike G, youda gotten away with it if it hadn't a been for those meddling kids and that pesky dog