81 replies to this topic

[tomsk]

I can just picture you all out on the patio like grumpy old men and women.

"oh it's not like the old days the young ones have no respect anymore, we used to work 26 hrs a day and all for the pitiful some of $1000.00 an hour"

[Scottie]

It just struck me as odd how many people I know are catching this general I-dont-give-a-whatever attitude all at the same time, regardless of when we started doing SEO. I guess it's a lot less about client work and more about the whole information sharing/answering questions/catching up at conferences thing.

Maybe it's just the fact that no one reads past threads and we get the same questions asked on a daily basis? Sometimes I wonder if we didn't have all the repetitious questions, if we'd run out of threads!

But it does get tiring answering the same questions repeatedly- you find yourself giving shorter, less informative answers because it's all been gone over before.

Starting out, it was really fun seeing the different issues that cause people to have problems with their sites; playing detective and really helping people to see increases. Now, I feel like it's all the same stuff!

And fortunately or unfortunately, I don't think the algos are as complex as many people want to make them out to be- "if I could only manipulate x percent of my incoming links and block x percent of my outgoing links and get my keywords on the page at 16% I'd be #1..." so those sort of speculation threads don't interest me. I realize those threads stem from a helplessness and a desire to believe that you have some control over the search engines if you could only crack the code but from a practical standpoint, I don't believe there is a magic formula. And if there is, once you found it out, it would change in a week...

It's that challenge thing, I guess.

[OldWelshGuy]

Yep, the challenge. I have always been a concept man, I enjoy taking something and working out the concept for it, how to get from A-B and working out all the rest. Everytime I have started a business from scratch, as soon as it is running really well and making money I get bored and want to sell it and start again lol.

I really enjoy working with small business people or people with small businesse really, I don't have a dwarve fetish or anything At least that way you get to experience their buzz.

[qwerty]

Well, if you lot are all bored with the work on getting the code and content on a site right, feel free to send all those boring clients to me

[BobetteKyle]

We're purchasing a ClickTracks Pro this week,

I am SO jealous. I saw a demo a year or two ago. The click analysis is incredibly cool...knowing exactly % of clicks each link gets (hope I remember that right).

Marketing, as in implementing an overall marketing plan, is where everything is headed.

Yeah - an overall marketing plan - what a unique concept. Virtual marketing is finally aligning with the traditional...it's all part of one process, really. Quoting myself...written originally in 2002 for me book, revised a bit in 2004 for an article:

With the continued proliferation of the Internet, the meaning of the word "marketing" also seems to proliferate. Cyberspace has opened up a whole arena of new marketing technologies, techniques, and twists.
<snip>
As a process, there are certain foundations of marketing that will never become obsolete. We still have products, services, and ideas to sell at some price. We deliver to our customers via some means of distribution. We promote and we advertise. Those are the basics. Those basics still exist and always will.

If The Marketing Definition Hasn't Changed, Then What Has?

What has changed is the business environment. Companies compete with more efficient technologies. Customers have better access to their cost options and they communicate to each other in ways not conceivable in the pre-Internet age. 
<snip>
These have changed, but the basic marketing definition has not. Superior marketing is and always has been analysis, then action. It is strategy development, then logical and thought-out tactical implementation. It is the way to customer satisfaction and increasing profit.

I am glad general beliefs are heading in that direction.

[copywriter]

I guess that's why I love copywriting so much. I get to work on a variety of projects for a variety of marketing venues... not just SEO stuff.

I'm in the same boat with Bobette. I'm not "an SEO." I'm a copywriter who applies her conversion techniques (via words) to websites and other mediums.

I can see how all the SEOs that have been doing this for a while would be getting kinda bored.

[cline]

Yes, Jill, it is great to be able to pick and choose. One of the things I like best about consulting is that my fate is not dependant on any individual client.

One of the worst business experiences I ever had was at my first dot-bomb. The CIO, whose work experience was mostly a stint at NASA as a rocket scientist, told me to shut up (about business strategy) because my only role was to bring eyeballs to the site.

[Hyperformance]

It never was just SEO to my company... it's tough to get bored when it can be very diverse (marketing online). I still love what we do and agree that each new account brings their own unique issues. SEO, to me, is still only a piece of the entire pie.

I do get tired of educating the client on every call (about the same info no matter the client), knowing it is part of getting that business and all... but it must be like you guys answering the same SEO questions day in and day out with little change...Just once I should try breaking into a song and dance maybe using a RAP backdrop and educating in that manner? It could work on the inner city sites here???

I also agree on redundant, many tasks are repetitive, but my part-time employees now do some of that for me (research, etc.).

[Raphael]

And fortunately or unfortunately, I don't think the algos are as complex as many people want to make them out to be- "if I could only manipulate x percent of my incoming links and block x percent of my outgoing links and get my keywords on the page at 16% I'd be #1..."  so those sort of speculation threads don't interest me.  I realize those threads stem from a helplessness and a desire to believe that you have some control over the search engines if you could only crack the code but from a practical standpoint, I don't believe there is a magic formula.  And if there is, once you found it out, it would change in a week...

It's that challenge thing, I guess.

I think you can definitely overanalyze something, and I think that a lot of computer geeks that get into SEO are guilty of that. The SEOs that come from a less technical direction are much more likely to succeeed at organic optimization, purely because they're more inclined to 'try it and see if it works' rather than spend 40 hours trying to figure out what algorithm google is using this week. People like that annoy me. It's a pointless waste of energy, and IMO you'd simply be better off spending your time making sure your site is the best, the most comprehensive and the most informative in it's field.... Because at the end of the day, ranking actually doesn't count for crap - visitors and conversions do.

Getting the #1 spot in google for your key terms might be ONE means of attracting visitors to your site, but it is by far and away not the only one - Just ask those folks at IMDB.

[sweepthelegnate]

Maybe it's just the fact that no one reads past threads and we get the same questions asked on a daily basis? Sometimes I wonder if we didn't have all the repetitious questions, if we'd run out of threads!

speaking of that...can anyone tell me why my site is not number one? I put all my keywords in the <h1> tag...and the keywords are also in my domain name (even separated by hypens)...what's the deal? is google out to get me?


thanks,


nathan (aka super seoer with no actual clients)

[OldWelshGuy]

Please don't get me wrong here, but SEO is a bit like a computer game, once you have done it, and know you can do it, it kind of loses its appeal. If I had to sit down and just do traditional SEO stuff then I would go nuts in no time (or more nuts lol).

I really enjoy taking a website that is not working at all (and probably wouldn't work even if it was numer on on Google for every phrase available in it's sector) And turning it into something that will work for the client. I really enjoy teaching the client how SEO and web marketing can help their business grow. (truth be known I enjoy the teaching bit more than the doing bit).

At the end of my time with a client, they generally know enough about seo to keep their site bobbing along with a bit of eamil support every now and again.

Marketing is definately fun, and I can't see a time when it will not be challenging, as it encompasses so much.

[projectphp]

I think that any box is inhibiting and boring. SEO is such a small part of web marketing. I have tried very hard over the last year to really broaden the scope of what I do, and talk about of websites as a Marketing vehicle. SEO plays a part in that, as does PPC, Usability, conversion and metric analyses and a host of other issues. Not all clients need the same advice that way, and one gets to really offer value to every customer.

But straight, turn this <div class="heading"> into and <h1>? OHHH, dull.

IMHO a lot of people are bored because SEO is no longer something that needs to be sold as a concept, as so many people already want it. That has taken a lot of challenge out of the equation, and has dented the hostility that faced a newly hired SEO when you do get a client. Now, the web designers probably signed as part of the contract that SE visibility remain a factor, so they aren't as resistant to SEO as previously, and management probably cares and have some stake in a sites SEO success. Heck, the other day one lady told me SEO was one of her KPIs. That lowers the resistance to fights I can tell you!!!

Or maybe it is just me enjoys a good barney

[projectphp]

truth be known I enjoy the teaching bit more than the doing bit).

(Don't tell anyone: but me too).

Marketing is definately fun, and I can't see a time when it will not be challenging, as it encompasses so much.

Definitely, and mostly because the challenges to marketing a site are usually interpersonal, not technology or coding based.

How does one get 3-10 people with different roles pulling in the right direction to make the site a success?? How do you deal with a Hitler Web Designer that won't change code and for whom "that can't be done" is a catch phrase? How do you educate different people with different backgrounds about search engines?

I think Ammon got it right in his job ad @ SEW: http://forums.search...read.php?t=4088, when he said:

You must be a great communicator, as an essential part of this role is to bridge the communication gap that often exists between the Marketing and Technical Departments of Client Companies.

That is what I do: " bridge the communication gap that often exists between the Marketing and Technical Departments of Client Companies", and that is the best, most varied bit. Explaining PageRank to a programmer is very different to explaining it to a marketing person, and not everyone is capable of holding both of those conversations.

No two clients are ever the same, and dealing with their unique bureaucracy and internal politics and actually getting results is the funnest bit of SEO for mine.

[BobetteKyle]

truth be known I enjoy the teaching bit more than the doing bit).

(Don't tell anyone: but me too).

I think we are cut from the same clothe. Probably has something to do with why we are addicted to this gosh darn forum.

projectphp, I think you would love Brand Management (the flavor I worked at, anyway). Running projects - getting all the different functions to play nice and accomplish great things - is the crux, just like you described except for tangible products.

[Jill]

I think Ammon got it right in his job ad @ SEW.....

....bridge the communication gap that often exists between the Marketing and Technical Departments of Client Companies.

Absolutely, I was thinking the same thing when I read that!

I do believe that the best SEOs (not for pills, porn casino, but "real" sites) are those who are somewhat technical, but not so geeky as to do things by the numbers. Plus, they have to be highly creative. It's quite a powerful combination when you put those 2 things together.

I guess that's why those people trying to figure out LSI or whatever the geeky acronym of the month is just make me laugh and laugh.