10 replies to this topic

[arlen]

Hi folks, been awhile since I've posted.

I launched my site back in May, and have slowly moved up to page 4 on Yahoo, MSN, & AltaVista, but am still, what, 50 some pages back on Google. Business is slow though improving, but this Google thing is really bugging me.

I've honestly avoided truly launching a link building campaign, largely due to lack of time, but … well … guess I'm really resisting it. I have submitted to a number of directories, some I need to follow up with, but I haven't aggressively gone after other sites for links yet. I am adding directories of clubs and festivals that will be helpful to my customers very soon and hope to encourage natural linking that way. I am also building a directory of kid-safe activity sites which might help in time (also adding product, cleaning up css and reworking my site to have individual product pages which may perform better in targeted searches)

Anyway, I keep hearing conflicting info, and hope I can turn to you all again to clear some things up. In general, people here stress content, which I consider a true measure of value, so I trust your input.

I spent several hours tonight doing "add url" searches on some of my keywords and have begun a spreadsheet of sites I might consider linking to. The problem is, I'm still not convinced a page of reciprocal links is really the answer to search engine placement. All that really says is the webmaster was really aggressive in contacting other sites, and the more links the less focused they were. Natural links underscore value, but traded links seem like a bogus way to value a site. It just doesn't make sense to me, but natural links only come with time. I'm comfortable contacting some of the sites linking to my major competitors, but often I don't necessarily fit the reason the other site was listed.

The thing is, most of the "Quality" retail sites I visit DON'T trade links, and have managed to earn their way up the serps regardless - probably over some time. It seems to me, that the best use my limited time is to add content to my site, though I don't see that affecting my placement in Google for a long time the way things have gone so far.

So, in my long-winded way, what I'm asking is "Am I way off base here?"

If I take the tact of simply providing links to highly relevant sites only, maybe trading with a few with highly selective criteria, am I going to be waiting another 8 months or more to find my way up the Google listings? I am very anxious to increase business, I just don't see reciprocal linking as a good permanent strategy.

[linux_lover]

I completely agree... and I have the same problem, high up in all search engines bar google!

Trouble is that money talks, and big companies pay for lots of links/people to get them links and therefore get high rankings.

I personally believe google puts too much emphesis on it, and an algorhythm that works of many factors so no one factor can be exploited would be more 'fair'.

[arlen]

Yeah lilo, I just don't get it.

Just to illustrate this point a little more, I did a quick check this morning by doing a google search on a couple of my primary key phrases. Not one of the top 10 sites offers any reciprocal linking. Only one has a small links directory of highly relevant links (which does add "value") and one actually belongs to a webring, but otherwise no.

Admittedly I am in a small niche market, and even the biggest and oldest competitor has a limited number of inbound links. A link:big-competitor search only returns 125 links and a link:(space)big-competitor search only returns 750 links. There are some minor competitors with more inbound links that don't show up till many pages back in the serps. I really haven't found a direct competitor who does exchange links yet.

I guess I could conclude from this that no one else is sophisticated or energetic enough to do a big links campaign (which would then be an advantage to me if I did) … but I'm not really sure that's the lesson here.

In the broader category of toy stores, there are tons and tons of sites who exchange links, from a handful to hundreds, but they are way back in the serp results when they show at all. The top sites don't exchange. A link-nospace search brings 500+ results and a link-space search brings 10,000+ for one highly placed site, even though they don't reciprocate.

Edited by arlen, 08 January 2005 - 09:23 AM.

[linux_lover]

Depends a lot on the quality of linking site/anchor text/linking sites page relevence etc...
You could have 1000 crappy links whereas another site could have 3 kick ass links and beat you.

But those kick ass links probably cost £££££...

Theres loads of posts on this and other aspects of linking if you do a search.

[arlen]

Yeah LiLo, I do understand that quality of links "should" matter more than quantity (though I don't know that it always does). I've read a lot of the threads covering this topic, and "it depends" is usually the conclusion. But "you must have links" is always the thrust.

I want to present the most professional face I can, and intend to maintain the highest level of quality I can afford to (which in my mind means only highly relevant links). However, I guess a section of more loosely related partner sites could be done without looking like I'm chasing links, and still maintain my standards.

Before I do this, I'm going to try to look for a limited number of either high ranking sites, or sites I believe are likely to rank high in time, and see if I can create content that would specifically appeal to them before proposing a link. Too aggressively soliciting links, or not being selective enough, could be a real turnoff to those 3 or 4 super-duper link partners I really need.

[Debra]

I am adding directories of clubs and festivals that will be helpful to my customers very soon and hope to encourage natural linking that way. I am also building a directory of kid-safe activity sites which might help in time

Arlen, once you add these resources, send out a press release letting people know you've built a resource site for this information. Email everyone you know with the same information and encourage them to link to you.

You mentioned you had a couple of competitors, backlink them and see where they're linking, add yourself if possible.

going to try to look for a limited number of either high ranking sites, or sites I believe are likely to rank high in time, and see if I can create content that would specifically appeal to them before proposing a link

I've never used this strategy so I can't speak to it directly, but overall I would think it's going to be far more beneficial to spend time creating a site your potential customers want than link partners. You can always buy a link or two to get started, and then naturally accumulate links as your site grows and becomes an authority on your topic.

IMO, the single most impactful thing you can do is let people KNOW the site is there and then encourage them to link. Only way to do that is to create something they want to link to.

[arlen]

Thanks Debra, the press release is an excellent idea. I've been looking for "reasons" to do a press release. Many of the things I've thought of take time, which I don't have until the site is supporting me financially (it supports itself, but not a viable income yet). I am however looking for charity auctions and other higher profile events I could donate something to, then do a press release for each. I do understand there is a lot of power in PRs.

What I meant by building something specific is something like this - right now I have instructional pages & tips pages for my customers. I intend to do a version that would work well for educators (i.e. easily printed class handouts or classroom project sheets that feel "non-commercial" (but with copyright info & a backlink). I hope to create something that they would want to link to naturally, and if one quality site would pick me up, it would encourage a lot of links. By providing a good "resource" as a part of my site, but in a format a targeted group could use, I could garner favor with a highly placed educational site. Same goes for youth groups, scouts, etc. If I can find other audiences that are potential customers, I can try to do the same.

[arlen]

Oh, and I have researched my biggest competitor's links ... I don't offer some of the things that motivated a lot of the linking (they're the big fish, much broader scope), but I am compiling a spreadsheet of contacts from their links (and others) that I'll act on soon! I just intend to limit the reciprocal aspect for now, not all linking.

[josh1r]

Admittedly I am in a small niche market, and even the biggest and oldest competitor has a limited number of inbound links. A link:big-competitor search only returns 125 links and a link:(space)big-competitor search only returns 750 links.

What is the difference of the link: and link:(space)?

On my site the link: comes up with 207 backlinks (which is what the various backlink websites show), but when I add the (space) i get 920 links.

Thanks!

[powerofeyes]

link:www.yoursite is the correct format link:<space>www.yoursite simple shows you pages which have your domain name and the word link somewhere,

Forget what google shows in backlinks, check yahoo,

[Debra]

right now I have instructional pages & tips pages for my customers

A couple of things came to mind when I read this:

Research DIY sites out there and submit your link.

Email your customers and ask them to link to you.

Find the blogs in your industry, write and introduce your site/pages to them, offer link.

Find someone who writes a newsletter in your industry and submit an article(s)