21 replies to this topic

[Jill]

Edward of SEO Consultants is wondering if it's time that they developed a standards organization with the help of its members.

What do you guys think?

Are we ready for search engine marketing standards?

[mcanerin]

YES!



Ian

[OldWelshGuy]

We already have a set of standards for the industry, but no one can agree on what they are

I really should think about joining things you know. I had the forms for SMA and haven't returned them yet. (but that's another story)

Not sure if I really should comment though seeing as I haven't paid the $100 and completed the form. Got all the way through, had to pay $100 and thought hmmm no card on desk, no motivation. abandoned shopping cart lol.

[Haystack]

Yes, definitely. But arriving at those standards and somehow enforcing them is the real challenge. On the bright side, I think there is a good chance that seoconsultants.com could come to a consensus amongst the members. IMO, they have a good group of consultants interested in best practices within the industry, so that could turn that into something more substantial.

[anthonyparsons.com]

IMO, the only way we can ever have a firm set of standards is that the governing body is accredited to do so. Anyone can make a website, make standards for an industry and so forth, SEMPO have / are trying, but still, no formal accreditation for them or the members. This is no different from going to University or the like IMO. The school is accredited and the student is accredited on successful completion. If SEMPO, SEO Consultants, SMA, or any other organisation cannot perform those basic functions first, then they are nothing more than another website trying to sell themselves. An accredited body does not sell itself, we sell it as we need it, not the other way around.

[Haystack]

Anthony, it seems to me like it would be relatively easy to create a standards organization. Even more so if the group deciding what those standards are is small.

I think the bigger challenge is figuring out how to market those standards to SEM consumers, who generally know little to nothing about this business. If that isn't done, there is little value in accreditation.

[Scottie]

I agree- standards aren't for everyone. They are for the people who choose to make the effort to adhere to them.

SEO Consultants has already shown that they aren't afraid to make decisions that are unpopular with SEO companies- they've denied some big names in the business.

If anyone has a shot at it, I'd say it's them.

As to educating consumers, most likely the members who are "accredited" would be the ones letting prospective customers know what the certification means and how it sets them apart.

[Connie]

Anthony, it seems to me like it would be relatively easy to create a standards organization. Even more so if the group deciding what those standards are is small. 

I think the bigger challenge is figuring out how to market those standards to SEM consumers, who generally know little to nothing about this business. If that isn't done, there is little value in accreditation.

If it's that easy why hasn't some one been able to do it? Who would do the accrediting? With educational institutions States are involved. States have long established standards. Even then there are institutions that get accredited that are scams.

Back to my question. Who is going to establish the accrediting authority? Based on what I have read SEMPO had a chance. They might still have a chance. I don't know. The problem is the white hats, black hats, gray hats. Some people are willing to get along with others. Some will not. Any way who is going to do the accreditation? Who authorized them to do the accreditation?

[Haystack]

If it's that easy why hasn't some one been able to do it?

Connie, as I've stated above, anyone could say tomorrow that they're going to set the standards, but the challenge is getting people to 1. decide they want to abide by those standards, and 2., educate consumers about what those standards are and why they're valuable. Organizations like SEO Consultants definitely have a leg up on #1, but #2 is a trickier deal. As Scottie's mentioned, each company abiding by those standards could spread the word, which would certainly help, but it may take more than that to educate your average SEM consumer.

[mcanerin]

There are several types of accreditation, including regulatory, recognised, cooperative, vendor and defacto.

Regulatory is just that - some government passes a law or series of laws that state what you need to know and where you need to learn it from. An example would be an engineering or law society/association.

Recognised is an equivilent to a current accepted standard, such as a degree in computer science from the UK being recognised in the US.

Cooperative is when a group of interested industry luminaries get together and agree on a standard, and their power and reach pretty much make it so. This includes things like the W3C and the DVD Consortium/Forum.

Vendor is where the certification originates from the creater of the thing being certified in - examples would include Microsofts MCSE, and Googles Adwords Certification.

Defacto is exactly that - it's generally accepted, and therefore is - no further qualification necessary. No one ever "made" SEOConsultants a standards org, but many people will accept a listing there to be an indication of meeting certain criteria. If that person accepting it is a potential employer, then you may want to get certified

For this industry, regulatory isn't going to happen any time soon, and since it doesn't exist, the likelyhood of recognised is pretty remote. There is no one vendor, so that's out.

This leaves cooperative and defacto. Currently, SEOConsultants is close to defacto, but there have been calls for a different system - fo one thing, the focus mostly on SEO, so other forms of SEM may not be covered. There are a few training courses (IWA, for example) but nothing widely recognised.

That pretty much leaves cooperative. Get a group together that is widely respected and has industry clout, hammer something out, and, most importantly, get buy in from not only the SEM industry, but, at least as important, the website owners and operators who hire SEM's. That's the key. If they don't care, then all the qualifications in the world are just so much wallpaper.

Ian

[Jill]

One thing I don't get....

Edward mentions that these standards are NOT about best practices.

Then what would they be?

Or maybe I'm just reading it wrong, he said:

Not a Best Practices Crusade

Let us make one point clear, this is not an attempt to police the industry.

So it might be about best practices, just not about policing?

[Hyperformance]

Hmmm,

We currently have Best Practices (agreed?). Are they followed? Yes, by those that choose to do business in this manner.

Is there ethics among professionals in our business? Yes, by those who choose to do business in this manner.

Do we currently battle the unethical, and black hat tactics of those that choose to do business in that way? Yes, educating clients has become an accepted part of our presentation.

To what further benefit would this organization be offering our Industry, or our individual business? (besides a slick logo that "we" belong). Will it reduce our gray/black hat competitors? Will they educate us better, faster, or in a more timely way than is already available?

Will this organization be able to better inform the public of these practices than is already available on the Web?, and through our combined individual efforts?

Exactly what is the benefit to SEMPO or the SEOConsultants who form this "straight arrow" type of best practices organization in attempting to educate the public or form one big controlled (for lack of a better term) list of "approved" vendors?

These are the type of questions that come to (my) mind when I consider what they are "selling". And without a clearer benefit to the Industry and to my business, that is what I feel some are attempting to do.

Yes, we already have this battle, is it a battle that can be overcome by one group of professionals any better than we currently overcome it with each client? Great to protect the consumer, I'm all for that - but how exactly are they accomplishing that beyond the means currently available to all who care to investigate before they buy? Referrals, testimonials, ethics, reputation, and a history of proven success are some of my tools right now... so what do we gain? I mean it, what is the main goal and how does it differ from what's available (education wise) now?

Other than these issues, it's a he said, she said Industry - and I don't know how that changes by one body taking initiative to "govern" the industry - which is not the same as policing the industry... We can see the disparity among our own Industry peers in the HR thread on White Hat/Black Hat practices. Now we should have a body that tells us and the public what's accepted as best practices and what's not? Potentially alienating and further separating our Industry? And yes, I understand that it would be made up of many Industry (leaders?) individuals who would vote or decide on these practices and there validity.

Many probably thought I would jump all over this White Hat type organization after our previous threads on related topics. But to have or form a governing body for the sake of that governing body is not in itself a reason...(IMO). As a matter of fact, these are all opinions, I am not trying to dismantle this as much as I am wanting to understand the exact reasons for their existence, when I am in this battle everyday and currently doing just fine without this type of organization helping me in any way fight my Industry battles.

Could the public use more and better educational information? Always.

Could I (my Industry) benefit from what they propose? I don't know... I do know I want to be convinced of this before it is a valid organization to me.

Please be gentle with me guys - ? Maybe I'm missing something? If that's the case I can count on you to educate me further.


Whew - didn't think I had that much to say...

[Jill]

It is my understanding from reading it, that they'd be looking mostly to educating the public about the standards, as a way to help them know what to look for when they hire someone.

[mcanerin]

I think the best way to "enforce" standards is to influence the motivator - the client.

If your client doesn't want to associate with spam and is educated about the issues, then most SEO's (regardless of nominal hat) won't spam. That eliminates the problem for most cases.

This would still leave the SEO's who don't have the skills/patience to actually do the job right and lie to the client, and also the client who is looking for an edge and ignores the warnings, but I believe an educated client is the key to the majority of our industries issues.

The internet is the great equalizer, due to readily available information. Consumers are now often more educated than salespeople for many consumer items, and have information readily available for service industries whenever they chose to look.

Consumers also usually like to know about things that can affect them - they simply have to know it exists and have access to it. You need to know there is a potential for a problem before you question the results. It's an education issue.

I think that a combination of clear information regarding rules/risks and public awareness of that information should be one of the main goals of any SEM industry group, moreso than trying to set up a standards board internally for SEM's.

Change the demand, and you change the supply.

Ian

[anthonyparsons.com]

I agree Connie, it would be no easy task at all. From my experience as an accredited competency based trainer, it would stem back to either governmental or tertiary education accreditation. It is no different from most other politics, ie. most countries have a minister of education which looks after everything educational, ie. online marketing. That type of body would be the overall governing accreditation. Could it be done world wide? Not sure. Maybe if one country picked it up, some others would follow.

In Australia for example, we have the Australian Standards Guidelines. These are government accredited, educational guidelines set influence a minimum set of standards. You can go above them at your own peril, though by being accredited to the relevant Australian Standard, it means your business has been scrutinized by an independant authority / body for the relevant set guidelines to your business. To display that accreditation, means that you meet the minimum set practices as dictated by the overall Australian Standards body. Not sure if the US, UK and so forth have a similar thing. IMO, these are the type of body accreditation required to lock this once and for all.

IMHO, it is not something us little people could fix, more something possibly the search engines would have to approach, as they are the one's with the big dollars and clout to push political buttons as they see fit. People say the government bodies would have nothing to do with it, but any one who is involved with education and training would know different. Once the government / state body has an accredited package, people can then be tested against that package and officially accredited, no different to attending university for 4 years to obtain your degree.

I don't believe you need to have a complete marketing degree to perform the job of an SEO / SEM, though the first proactive step would be to take the required modules from that course and include them in the accreditation process. Training is a major factor of accreditation.

Someone could open up a site, write some doctrine and test people against what they have written as best practices, give them a shiny emblem to plaster on their site, but it really means little in the overall scheme of things, as the business itself and the business practices have not been independantly scrutinized. This is a big job, and it certainly won't happen by anyone like SEMPO, SMA or the like. This would need some serious clout by some very powerful people or alot of people all partioning to a government body to have them investigate and provide an answer whether they would stem accreditation for the industry.