14 replies to this topic

[Haystack]

Here's an article I wrapped up tonight together with a colleague of mine, Ian McManus of Edigita.com. Let us know what you think. (channel any frustrations you have in life through your criticism of our article. We can take it.).

http://www.haystacki...rt-software.htm

[YaSO]

I walked through your article briefly; I did not find any mentioning of migration. Do you think it important to consider the possibility of migration?

The reason that I'm bring this up is that I was asked to take a look into shopping cart migration (hosted at some hosting company that shall remain nameless) a couple of months ago. Turns out that there is no source code available for the shopping cart; there is no migration kit available. The backend database it's using was dBase or something like that; one of those databases dieing out there. Migration was simply not possible; I recommended him to get a new shopping cart, a descent one this time, and redesign the part of the site(I actually what happened after that).

I don't know how the shopping cart will be evolving in the next couple of years, but migration can be a pretty important issue to look at.

[Haystack]

Great point, YaSO. Migration can be a huge issue. This isn't going to be a selling point emphasize by many shopping cart vendors (Our program makes it easy for you to port your cart to our competitors!) but it it something a business might want to keep in mind.

Along a similar line, having the ability to export your cart's data in appropriate formats for Froogle, Yahoo Shopping, etc. would be a valuable feature.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Ron Carnell]

YaSo, you don't need the source code to Excel to read an Excel spreadsheet.

When converting a non-standard DB format, the source code can help define the fields, but that's about it. When converting a standard DB, like dBase, even that information is contained directly within the DB file, making the source code that accesses the DB meaningless garbage. There are TONS of current database management systems that can read dBase files -- including the aforementioned and ubiquitous MS Excel. Conversation should be a walk in the park.

Migration is an important consideration, I agree. But I personally think it should be assumed and only mentioned if there is reason to believe a potential problem is being created. Today's shopping carts, by and large, use either an SQL RDBMS or a plain-text DB, either of which can be converted to just about any other DB format imaginable.

Ed, your mini-article gives a really good overview of the most important considerations. My only suggestion would be to round it up to an even ten items, ala Letterman style, and add Support, either from the vendor or an established user community.

[YaSO]

There are TONS of current database management systems that can read dBase files -- including the aforementioned and ubiquitous MS Excel. Conversation should be a walk in the park.

Yes, there are, and I tried out a couple of different applications myself.

Today's shopping carts, by and large, use either an SQL RDBMS or a plain-text DB, either of which can be converted to just about any other DB format imaginable.

True, but I don't know if it's good enough. In fact, I could have pulled data out and put it in SQL RDBMS; getting it work with a new shopping cart would be the hard part.

Ed, your mini-article gives a really good overview of the most important considerations. My only suggestion would be to round it up to an even ten items, ala Letterman style, and add Support, either from the vendor or an established user community.

Article is fine, actually; it gives a good overview; but depending on the scope of the project, migration is one of issues that you must consider. It's kind of difficult though; some people just want to run a site as a hobby. Some of these sites will attract many users and become quite popular; they realize that they need to migrate, but they didn't think about it at all at the beginning. Well, at least it's a good worry, good problem to deal with. It's not like you are in a desperate situation and you just need to find a way out.

[Ron Carnell]

In fact, I could have pulled data out and put it in SQL RDBMS; getting it work with a new shopping cart would be the hard part.

You're right, YaSO. But doesn't that make migration a problem with the destination system rather than with the source?

Moving data from one application to another is rarely easy. But it's even more rarely "not possible." I think all you can ever really expect from an application is that it expose, not hide, its structure and data. Twenty years ago, just about everything was proprietary and hard. Today, I think that's the exception rather than the rule. It still takes a little experience and far too many hours, but at least the magic incantations and human sacrifices are no longer necessary.

Uh, at least not usually ...

[webstream]

Ed,

I am not quite sure of your intent with that article. You appear to be referring to the turnkey catalog/carts, such as Yahoo. I am not sure how a do-it-yourself cart application can benefit you, or your time. Those carts are usually not flexible in design and have limitations as far as number of products for a given monthly fee.

I write custom catalog and carts and feel that adds more value to the clients. Unless you are selling something really simple you need to design the information and UI to help quickly guide the targeted shoppers to the best choices to fulfill their needs. Many times the shoppers don't know brands and need help getting to the right product that they are searching for. There are also many issues that need to be consider in development, including expert SEO and incoming links (as I am absorbing here ). The DIY, turnkey carts were not built with expert SEO in mind.

Inserting a large number of products can be a real hassle for a admin user, unless an import application is designed to help accomondate their specific products and specifications. Hooking up the various shippers for real-time rates has their own headaches, like UPS. Not to mention, if the need to do LTL shipments with trucking companies like Roadway.

I could go on and on, but I don't have the time. Anyway, I guess if I were you I would focus on custom designing catalog/carts to meet the needs of many small businesses. IMHO, there could be money in that for you, but I don't see the benefits in DIY carts & malls (Other than maybe a few clicks on the AdSense ads.)

My $.02,

Webstream

[Haystack]

Webstream, thanks for the feedback. That article was written based on my experience marketing businesses with eCommerce sites. While it does lean toward evaluating turnkey subscription based carts, by writing an article outlining variables that should be considered during the evaluation process, I would hope businesses working off that list would conclude that they need to go with a custom solution.

I definitely agree that most turnkey carts are not built with SEO in mind. In fact, I've worked with clients who are using some of the most popular turnkey solutions for their business where we ended up paying for custom development for their carts that has since been rolled out to their entire client base as an 'enhancement' we paid for.

Overall, I'd say there is a market for turnkey carts. The businesses I see succeeding using them have fairly simple product lines, a usable interface, don't need or offer any shipping options, and are search engine friendly. However, I think businesses could use some help deciding what criteria they should use to make the right decision for their business.

I've received a ton of calls and emails based on that article asking for follow-up articles with some specific recommendations. If you're interested in getting involved in writing the follow-up articles let me know (same for anyone else who reads this and would like to contribute). At this point I plan to follow up with two articles. One for hosted solutions, and one for custom development.

[webstream]

Ed,

I've received a ton of calls and emails based on that article asking for follow-up articles with some specific recommendations.

If you can turn that free cart information into real meaningful business dollars my hat is off to you! I personally see many who want to sell online but don't want to spend any money. Today, just getting the word out across the Net is quite labor intensive, as I am sure you know.

I am working on a couple of turnkey cart solutions to help promote for selling products online. Sites are totally skinned with CSS and can be managed fairly easily. It's the cost for marketing the web site that becomes the issue for many small businesses. It's really easy to get lost in the sea of web pages. They don't understand the costs involved for the Net, yet they will spend $5,000 on a newspaper ad for their brick-and-mortar storefront.

I do seminars at some trade conventions and I try to drive home to retailers what is involved in getting your business on-line. Many don't have a clue and don't realize the costs for launching a real Net e-commerce site with a quality web marketing campaign.

I see a lot of guys using carts apps like Candypress.com for $39 and then telling people they can design their shopping cart with credit card collections, an Access database and do it cheap! No marketing, no SEO, just a cheap cart!

Good luck!

Webstream

[Haystack]

If you can turn that free cart information into real meaningful business dollars my hat is off to you!

That's the goal, and so far so good.

I personally see many who want to sell online but don't want to spend any money.

If it was easy to make money, wouldn't everyone be rich? In the case of the web, many people don't seem to realize there is a difference between the website created by your nephew messing around on the web and a true online business. Marketing, copyrighting, and fulfillment are a few of the things missing from the equation.

Sites are totally skinned with CSS and can be managed fairly easily. It's the cost for marketing the web site that becomes the issue for many small businesses. It's really easy to get lost in the sea of web pages. They don't understand the costs involved for the Net, yet they will spend $5,000 on a newspaper ad for their brick-and-mortar storefront.

Very true. People with a dream tend to ignore obvious facts like Amazon's financial statements when they're concluding that it's easy to make money online. Let's face it: if more than one business is competing for the same customer, it's going to cost you to acquire that business. And it only gets worse as more companies compete. That's why the key is to turn a positive ROI.

I see a lot of guys using carts apps like Candypress.com for $39 and then telling people they can design their shopping cart with credit card collections, an Access database and do it cheap! No marketing, no SEO, just a cheap cart!

That sounds similar to the misinformation within the SEO industry at various price points for services that are basically scams. You've probably seen plenty of them delivered through spammy means. What a pain.

[webstream]

Ed,

Early this morning I was looking back through my e-notes on new customer leads. I have had 11 different companies in the last 26 days call about shopping carts. Not one of them had a clue as to where to start or what all is involved. So I think your idea of a web-based explanation is better than I first guessed it would be.

Webstream

[Haystack]

Thanks for the update, Webstream. There appears to be a great market for shopping cart vendors who market their carts well. And, for businesses capable of tweaking carts that were purchased with a few limitations.

[MIDA]

I'm glad I found this post, I am always on the look out for SEO friendly carts. I have only been able to find one good one via Google and it's very expensive - no one I know will pay for it - $199/month for my current client.

Now, if I ever had a BIG eCommerce company come my way, I'd not have a problem getting them to sign up.

Now, I have a new client who wants to sell antibody products online. They, of course, have no money, just two guys trying to branch out in their spare time and want me to build a cheap site listing their products and an e-mail form.

I am trying to think of a way to say "You are crazy if you don't get these products into a database/cart now before it gets out of hand". They are looking at 500+ products and while most users will not use a cart, they are very high-end products and need customization, I would like to at least like to use a database.

I'm kind of wandering in this post but the real question is:
With little money, what are my best database/cart options?

I mean if I have to make 10 tables and hand-list 50 products per table, why not use an Excel spreadsheet and import it into a database!

(sigh) Wish I knew more about databases I could just do it all myself!

Thanks for listening, any advice is appreciated!

MIDA

[Scottie]

Grumpus is working on an SE-friendly shopping cart at a great price- I think he hopes to have it ready in a month or two. If you see him hanging around, tell him to go finish that shopping cart!

[Grumpus]

Thanks Scottie. Actually, I already sent her a PM to see if she'd be interested in hearing me babble about it. (Didn't want to air any sales pitch type deals in public, dontcha know and didn't want to bother her with pitchy details on anything unless there was a specific interest implied by her).

But, yes. I am working on something quite affordable and pretty darned spiffy. Should be ready for Beta in mid February.

G.