61 replies to this topic

[chrishirst]

I think its  bit strange that people who havent launched a new site for years feel like they can dismiss this sandbox theory when it is very clear to people who have launched sites that their site is being held down for no apparent reason.

I can compare results using allintitle: and allinanchor: searches with my new sites and my old ones. The old ones appear in the top ten for the these searches and the normal searches where as my new sites appear between 160 and 200 for a normal search and in the top ten for an allintitle: or allinanchor: search.

and it's statements like this that keeps this "sandbox" theory trundling along until the next theory rolls of the Google myth production line.

When I put a new site up, I don't think "right it's the best ever, it should be top 5 next week/month". Nope. I know for a fact that while it may well get top placing for a meaningless search, but the phrases that count will take time. Might be 2 months, might be 6 months, might be 2 years. But I'm not flapping around like a headless chicken with a placard saying Google's not being fair to me. It's the same as it ever was ( thanks David) and the same as it will be.

The only thing that has changed is there are now more sites competing and working to get to the top and this number grows daily. therefore by simple logic (which appears to escape many) it will be more difficult to get there.

If you choose to build your website base on the shifting sands of links then TOUGH! Learn that it takes time and allow for it.

</rant>

Thank You. NEXT!

[greenlightsuk]

Powerofeyes, when you say my site lacks a lot of links, let's be clear what that means. The site has over 20 external links from different pages, on different sites.

The number 20 looks low when compared to sites with 100+ links, but I've checked through a whole bunch of sites with "lots" of links, and in every single case, the majority of their links are either internal or multiple links from the same site.

I think my links are better quality and more on topic than the remaining unique external links that these other sites have. My problem is that my site is a small site (< 20 pages) and can't get tons of internal links simply by default. Nor do I have any other domains I control to get links from multiple pages. Nor does my client have the budget to pay for text links on multiple pages to achieve the same effect.

So if simple link popularity (i.e volume is king, forget about relevancy) is holding this site back, and not sandbox or anything else, then I need to figure out a way to get around this.

Thinking cap on now.

[Jill]

I think its bit strange that people who havent launched a new site for years feel like they can dismiss this sandbox theory when it is very clear to people who have launched sites that their site is being held down for no apparent reason.

I'm certainly not dismissing the REAL sandbox theory. Which as far as I know has to do with sites who obtain hundreds, if not thousands of links very quickly.

What people are talking about here, doesn't sound like that, it sounds like an excuse.

The thing is, the problem getting sites ranked in Google is not limited to new sites. I get at least 10 emails and posts here a day from people who've done fine in Google for years and now they're gone.

Is that "sandbox" too?

Jill

[Michael]

it's great to rant and all, and to make obvious suggestions about what to do if your site is not ranking for certain keywords (generate Press, PPC, etc.), but the fact is if you have had your car stolen - even if it was a gift (i.e. google is a free service for organic listings) - it still HURTs.

I have no idea if there is a sand box, here is what I can tell you:

1) this particluar site was affected by the "filter test" way back when
2) other SEs are delivering better results on relevant terms for this site
3) some Keywords are KEY
4) this site brings traffic from other relevant search terms

For the record, the site in question has the top position for in google for the search term that sparked this thread, but it is a third party product review - not the site itself. The site itself has over 50 relevant inbound links concerning that the search term in question, but after 9 months does not appear in the top 1000 for the term. Wouldn't you be frustrated?

MY SUGGESTION
In the case of this site, let's forget the notion of the sandbox. As far as I can tell G is preparing less relevant results for this search term. That's bad for THEIR business in my books...

[Jill]

Michael, I agree with all that you said!

I don't think anyone here is trying to belittle the frustration of many site owners with Google. We all have it for some sites and some keywords.

But the fact is that it's Google's game and if they don't feel like showing the best results, then it's really just too bad for us. We can buy ads, or we can wait around hoping for the best, or we can just keep improving our sites and get more rankings for the phrases that Google allows us to get them with!

My posts here were not to counter anyone's frustration, but to simply point out that in these particular cases we're not talking about a sandbox. We're talking about a fundamental shift in how Google ranks some sites for some keyword phrases. And this has nothing to do with new sites, it affects all sites.

[Michael]

Word Jill.

So...my statement remains:

"It would be great to know why google is handicapping some sites... "

or perhaps rephrased/improved:

It would be great to know why google is delivering poor results for some SEARCH TERMS...

[Michael]

Additional thought:

why is this site not in the top 1000 results? There are many listings that point to this site in the top 1000, yet this site is not listed? It has been this way for over 7 months. I have had a client's site drop completely when G goofs - they reappeared after 6 weeks...

For the record, this omission from the top 1000 strikes me as intentional (i.e. a purposeful move), though I could be wrong... Why do I think this? Largely because it has been 9 months and there is just cause for this site to be in the top 1000....so again....why is this so?

[Diniz]

Yup it may well be googles search engine but we are the people who dedicate our lives to providing content for them to include. Now I am not overly concerned about my sites being sandboxed as i will get them out eventually but i do think that it is totaly wrong to leave webmasters dangling with no explanation as to what is going on. On top of that i think that it is rude and insulting for some people on this forum to treat everyone else like blittering idiots and to pretent that they are the great experts when they know nothing about sandbox theory and continualy assert that it does not exist and that it is the dumn webmaster who hasnt made their site worthy of highrankings. Then they say that page rank doesnt matter when it is clear to any webmaster from observation that it is very very important. On top of that since the Pr update the serps have become very messy with some very strange results and no one here seems to have noticed. I would like to suggest that the so called experts find out what is going on here and treat the visitors to this forum with more respect and stop treating people like idiots. I would also suggest that people stop making excuses for google and use their authority to pursuade them to raise their game. We are talking about real peoples lives and i for one think webmasters deserve a lot, lot better.

[Jill]

Hi Diniz,

Can you specifically point to where anyone here is treating anyone else like a blithering idiot?

Thanks, cuz I don't see it anywhere.

Jill

[maleman]

powerforeyes,

I'm saying do this if you're claiming "sandbox" and post your result:

site:www.yourdomain.com

and

allinurl:www.yourdomain.com

[ghergich]

you guys might as well give it up.....these mods don't want to believe in the sandbox and will not research it and they will close this post if you keep pushing the issue. How do I know because they did this the last time. They refuse to research the sandbox because if they did they would se it happens no matter if you get 100 links or 10,000 links. They would see this over and over but they don't care. Until they change there mind no need to ask them because they have done no research on the subject so they have nothing to say.

<edit>Removed last paragraph. Please refrain from personal attacks!</edit>

Edited by searchrank, 14 October 2004 - 01:12 PM.

[Jill]

Ghergich, I'll ask you the same thing I asked diniz, please point out where we don't believe in the sandbox and refuse to research it?

I just don't get where all this animosity comes from. If you have a problem with any of us, that's fine, but please don't say stuff that you can't substantiate.

Who said they don't believe in the sandbox? You yourself know that the sandbox has to do with obtaining tons and tons of links very quickly, correct? Isn't this what you've said previously?

The sites in question in this thread don't sound like they fall into that category, or am I missing something.

Ghergich, do you think these sites are also in the sandbox?

[ghergich]

And I Quote
"and it's statements like this that keeps this "sandbox" theory trundling along until the next theory rolls of the Google myth production line."

Calling the sandbox theory a myth is silly and he has 0 research to back it up. If you want I will go back and paste many similar statements by the mods here unless they have been deleted. I am not mad you all I just feel disapointed and firmly disagree with the opinions produced.

Also i say again do some research and you will see people going for competitive terms are sandoxed either way for the most part in fact i have not seen anyone who is new that was not sandoxed although I should not call people who are 5 months old new. I have seen plenty of people who have tried to get links slow and fast to test the theory and the results are the same. They dont rank for those competitive terms

[Scottie]

Ghergich-

There are plenty, and I mean PLENTY of SEO forums out there. If you don't like the answers and discussions we have here, I can give you several other forums were PR and sandboxes are discussed in great detail.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but you seem to feel that since some people here don't agree with you and others aren't particularly interested in the topic, that we are somehow doing something to you, personally.

I really don't understand why you feel the need to frequent this forum if we disappoint you so much...

BTW- We only delete flame posts, such as the one you made earlier.

[ghergich]

anyhow not going to argue this i just stated the fact that there was no need to discuss this here as not very many of you care or want to research it. I can go paste the quotes if you like, do i need to? There is nothing personal about it in fact you guys are getting personal lol. Who cares if you dont agree with the sandbox or care to research it. I dont you can do that if you like. However I was just letting these other guys know whats up. This is a good forum for most issues and its ok for me to disapointed in the forum for not researching what I think is a major issue for us and our clients. Its only my opinion as it is yours no need to be mad at each other about it and yes I know the forums in fact this may be the only seo forum that is not activly talking about the sanbox and researching it.